Many or much?

[SPX]

Well I would say it works either way.

At the very least, "fewer than 10 goals" and "less than 10 goals" will sound correct to a native speaker, though I think "less than 10 goals" is probably the more common way of saying it.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Thank you, Awaken...

Originally Posted by Awaken

Separate but related topic.

When you add "than" after the phrase, what is the correct usage?

He scored fewer than 10 goals? He scored less than 10 goals?
It's fewer right? Does the countable/uncountable still govern this?

I have the ghost of my old school teacher saying "fewer", but I'd like to see what other native speakers have to say.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Awaken

He scored fewer than 10 goals? He scored less than 10 goals?
It's fewer right? Does the countable/uncountable still govern this?.

Yes it does still govern this, and "less than 10 goals" sounds terrible to me. Goals are countable, so it is definitely "fewer". Having said that, I've often heard it said incorrectly .

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

So I think I will make far fewer mistakes about this from now on.

@Everyone:

[poli]

as a coda

I think in American English you will hear much less or less formally a lot less more frequently than far fewer. All three terms are commonly used however. If I'm not mistaken it is a question of register.
High register: Far fewer
Medium register: Much less
Low register: A lot less

[jrandlib]

Have to go with SPX in my speaking world. (Maybe different in a written form).

My wife went to two stores today. One had a lot less customers than the other one.

I am retired so I know that I have a lot less money than you do.

I am retired so I probably have a lot more time than you do.


The train is something else and probably needs another word depending on your intent.
It is not far away from me. It is not close to me. But this is not a comparison as in the original question.
In comparing, I would say the train is closer to me (than to you).
Or the train is farther from me (than to you).

[Awaken]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Yes it does still govern this, and "less than 10 goals" sounds terrible to me. Goals are countable, so it is definitely "fewer". Having said that, I've often heard it said incorrectly .

So what about money or time?

"I hope you paid the band less than $400." (that sounds right to me)
"They played less than 2 hours" (so does this)

I think that is the rule i was thinking of earlier with the time and money comment. The examples above, IF CORRECT, would be an exception since hours and dollars are countable.

Are those exceptions correct? I've found on the web differing opinions so I'm not even sure any more. Thoughts from around the globe.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by jrandlib

My wife went to two stores today. One had a lot less customers than the other one.

I have to say.. this sounds terrible to my ears.

Sorry, but it's true

[languagelover]

Angelica,

I think what this demonstrates is that even native English speakers do not always speak correctly. I receive emails all day long full of atrocious grammatical errors - but that probably has something to do with my industry (grammar is not a requirement :-D).

You will probably hear many English speakers using all of the options given above, be they correct or not. I would suggest that your average-Joe-Bloggs off the street would not have a clue which was correct and why.

But I applaud your quest for correctness. Long may it rule!

[SPX]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

I have to say.. this sounds terrible to my ears.

Sorry, but it's true

Probably only because you're not a native speaker who has heard it all her life.

I do understand the sentiment, though. I have a couple of friends who are generally well educated but have a couple of things that they say that drive me crazy.

For instance, one of them texted me earlier today and asked, "Have you ate yet?" I was like, "Have I done WHAT?!" It made me cringe, but she says that all the time.

I have another friend (actually a few of them) who, when talking about movies, will say, "I seen that one" or "I seen it" instead of, "I saw it." Even after I have corrected them repeatedly the habit persists.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by jrandlib

My wife went to two stores today. One had a lot less customers than the other one.
.

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

I have to say.. this sounds terrible to my ears.

and to mine.

Originally Posted by Awaken

So what about money or time?

"I hope you paid the band less than $400." (that sounds right to me)
"They played less than 2 hours" (so does this)

The examples above, IF CORRECT, would be an exception since hours and dollars are countable.
.

I have been thinking about this. Those examples are quite correct. I think the confusion is that as you say hours and dollars are countable, but time and money per se are not. Both these are an infinite uncountable strings measured in countable units. So if you are comparing hours and dollars, you use fewer, but if you are comparing quantities, which is probably far more common, then you use less.

You can buy one of these for less than 10 dollars. (here, you are looking at 10 dollars on a money scale, you are not looking at the individaul dollars)
The kid was very poor, he always had fewer dollars in his pocket than anybody else (a strained example, but here, you are looking at countable dollar coins)

You can do it in less time than it takes to boil and egg. (uncountable time)
"They played less than 2 hours" (One uncountable length of time, of size smaller than 2 hours)
BUT:
I spend fewer hours in physical exercise than I do sitting in front of the computer (Here, the individual countable hours are compared, because they are individual hour units counted up, not one length of time)

How's that?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by Perikles

How's that?

Terribly complicated, but I think I can manage to "feel" the idea.

@Perikles & Awaken: Thank you for this lesson!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Perikles & Awaken: Thank you for this lesson!

You are welcome, but hey - that's only one kiss for both of us. How does that work?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Fixed.