Más que & Más de

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

<-- When you say "has meaning", do you mean contains a complete subject/action meaning (even if the subject is implied and not necessarily stated...?
<-- So "ellipsed" is like when I said "understood"? It's not written/said as part of the sentence, but it's understood to be there?
....

OK - a finite verb form is a form which has the 5 attributes of mood, tense, voice, person and number. i.e. any form which you would regard as having meaning in itself. This is in contrast to non-finite verb forms which include past participle on its own; gerund; and of course the infinitive.

Example: This time tomorrow, I will have been shot. The bold is a finite verb form: 1st; sing; indicative; future perfect; passive. 5 attributes. verb: to shoot

Example: be nice 2nd; sing.; imperative; present; active, of the verb to be (or it could also be 2nd plural etc.)

and so on.

"ellipsed" is like when I said "understood"? Yes.

Originally Posted by pjt33

Comparisons against constants also use de. Peso más de 70 kilos.

@pjt gives an example which is an exception to the general rule which we were droning on about.

Does that help? We are in danger of doing this to death.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

@pjt gives an example which is an exception to the general rule which we were droning on about.

Does that help? We are in danger of doing this to death.

I know we are ... but I need to make sure that I never make this mistake again in the future. I have been directed not to move on to another thing until I understand the current thing. I really want to move on to the next thing, so I need to understand this one.

Anyway - I see PJT's example with the 70 kilos - and the ones with specific quantities I DO understand. (At least I get *something*!) I just feel like I'm going to make mistakes using "más que" instead of "más de" in situations that don't have specific quantities or a "lo que" in them...

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I know we are ... but I need to make sure that I never make this mistake again in the future. I have been directed not to move on to another thing until I understand the current thing. I really want to move on to the next thing, so I need to understand this one....

I hear what you say, but I think the process of learning a language is not as linear as learning maths. At least it is so in my own experience with both. A language lacks the logical certainty, and a lot of the learning is done by osmosis, picking up fairly random snippets. I find I have to get something wrong several times before it sinks in, and even then it usually doesn't.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I do see that this is what Perikles was saying ... and I understand the concept, but still am not always seeing it applied. Like what I wrote above (I can imagine this statement being "te quiero más que crees que te quiero" where the comparison is between **how much I love you** and **how much (you think) I love you**). It seems to me that even in this statement, it's still f(x) and f(y) like in the first part because both are still talking about a measurement of my love for you.

"Te quiero más que él" is f(x) vs f(y) - two measurements of how much the person loves you. But the amount I love you vs the amount you think I love you is f(x) vs g(f(x)), and the composition gives a different function because g isn't an identity mapping.

Originally Posted by Perikles

I hear what you say, but I think the process of learning a language is not as linear as learning maths. At least it is so in my own experience with both. A language lacks the logical certainty, and a lot of the learning is done by osmosis, picking up fairly random snippets. I find I have to get something wrong several times before it sinks in, and even then it usually doesn't.

¡No eres el único así, hombre!

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by pjt33

"Te quiero más que él" is f(x) vs f(y) - two measurements of how much the person loves you. But the amount I love you vs the amount you think I love you is f(x) vs g(f(x)), and the composition gives a different function because g isn't an identity mapping.

WHOA!!! That makes a crazily wonderful amount of sense........ Doing housework right now ... am going to ponder whilst I sweep........... Gracias!

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

En el concierto no había más que 100 personas. -> Only 100 people were at the concert.
En el concierto no había más de 100 personas. -> There were less than 100 people at the concert.

Originally Posted by Perikles

Quiero a Juan más que [quiero ellipsed] a ti

The magnitude for my love for Juan = A
The magnitude for my love for you = B

The above statement Quiero a Juan más que a ti
actually says A > B

In order to make that statement, it must be a measurable difference, even if only qualitative.

te quiero más de lo que crees This second part is not so specific, it is not a direct comparison, therefore not such a measurable comparison.

I'm not sure whether this logical distinction is helpful, because it is perhaps unconvincing. Ultimately, it is a grammatical distinction, which (sadly) does not need the logical explanation you seem to need.

Does that help?

Originally Posted by pjt33

Comparisons against constants also use de. Peso más de 70 kilos.

I just made an error in an exercise that made me come back and look for this thread. It has helped a lot to review it, and I hope that, after a year and a half, I am much better at grasping these concepts than I was then.

Here's the exercise:
English: Normally, she doesn't pay more than fifty dollars for a dress.
The book's Spanish translation: Normalmente no paga más de cincuenta dólares por un vestido.
Lou Ann had erroneously written "más que..." Doh!!

I believe that the things I quoted above are the reasons why it should be "de".... Not a question. I'm just sayin'.

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by laepelba

English: Normally, she doesn't pay more than fifty dollars for a dress.
The book's Spanish translation: Normalmente no paga más de cincuenta dólares por un vestido.
Lou Ann had erroneously written "más que..." Doh!!

I believe that the things I quoted above are the reasons why it should be "de".... Not a question. I'm just sayin'.

You're right. "Más de" ---> quantities / "Más que" (when similar to the previous one) degrees and levels

[no paga] más de 50 dólares (meaning "50 dollars tops")
[no paga] más que unos pocos dólares (meaning "petty money")