The worst

[Jellybaby]

"Lo peor es que sabía desde al princípio."
He oido esta frase en la noticías pero pensaba que con frases como esta se usa el subjuntivo "Lo peor es que supiera desde al princípo."

¿Se usa las dos?

[aleCcowaN]

Sí, con diferente significado.

[SEW810]

No no, la frase se puede considerar como una abreviación de

"Lo peor es que él/ella ya lo sabía desde el principio"

Posiblemente en otro contexto se pudiera usar "Lo peor es que supiera desde al principio" pero en este caso no, esta oración se escucharía extraña.

[Jellybaby]

¿Entones con oraciónes como "Lo peor es que/fue o Lo bueno es que/fue o Lo malo es que/fue" no se usa el subjuntivo?

Gracias

[aleCcowaN]

Sí, se lo usa. Depende de dos factores:

a) Si declaras información nueva o repites información ya conocida
b) Qué función tiene ese hecho en el conjunto de la historia y cómo te ha afectado.

No te olvides que en muchos casos el indicativo intensifica el efecto del verbo usado en el subjuntivo y esa intensificación tiene diferentes motivos y produce diferentes resultados. El ejemplo más sencillo es "quizá me gane la lotería" y "a lo/la mejor me gano la lotería". Las probabilidades son exactamente las mismas en ambas frases.

Con respecto a tu ejemplo, yo esperaría escuchar "lo peor es que lo sabía desde un principio" (o "supo" en diferente contexto) porque es algo que se dice upset, outraged o resented cuando se cuenta la historia a otro. Y esperaría escuchar "lo peor es que lo supiera desde el principio" cuando eso ya ha sido contado a nuestro interlocutor y queremos destacar que eso es lo que nos ha puesto especialmente upset ... o que eso fue the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Jellybaby]

Ok thanks. I think I understand. The thing is only a little while ago I posted this
¿Cómo se dice...?

"Lo bueno es que tenga/tiene."
"Lo malo es que tenga/tiene."
"Lo extraño es que tenga/tiene."
"Lo probable es que tenga/tiene."
¿En frases así se usa el subjuntivo o no?
Esta fue la respuesta!
Siempre el subjuntivo para ese tipo de construcciones.
__________________
The thing is If I don't know the rule, I'll never understand which to use, but are you saying if it's a new bit of information or something I'm saying for the first time I don't use the subjunctive?
Thanks for you help!

[aleCcowaN]

Spanish doesn't work that way. I can think at least a dozen every day examples with tiene or tenga, always for a good reason.

"lo importante es que tenga zzzz y nuestro producto lo tiene" (a sales pitch)
"lo importante es que tiene zzzz" (the same sales pitch, but inferring the customer is a connoisseur or he would be embarrassed to admit not being one).

I'll never translate both sentences into the same English structure. In my ignorance I would "invent" English and say "the important thing is it to have zzzz" for the first sentence, and I would be thinking that English indicative is the same as Spanish indicative, which is patently false.

To avoid spiralling in dealing with the whole subject of Spanish subjunctive, your original phrase: "lo peor es que lo sabía desde un principio" means either the person is both informing for the first time and commenting about the fact at the same time, or, having already informed that fact, she is qualifying that action as particularly aggravating.

If the sentence had been "lo peor es que lo supo desde un principio", it would be exactly the same. The difference is "sabía" implies multiple opportunities to share that information or change course:

"lo supo desde el principio pero decidió dejarme en la ignorancia"
"lo sabía desde el principio y no me dijo nada aunque me veía intentarlo una y otra vez"

The phrase "lo peor es que lo supiera desde el principio" leaves no doubt the fact is common knowledge because it has been talked about earlier, but it concentrates instead in communicating the speaker's outrage and how particularly aggravating is the fact of "having known from the very beginning"

[Ivy2937]

Lo peor es que ss que lo sabía desde el principio (imperfect sabía)
he knew it already.

Lo peor es que lo supiera... ( imperfect subjunctive) possibility, probability, he doesn't know it yet.


cita: ¿Entones con oraciónes como "Lo peor es que/fue o Lo bueno es que/fue o Lo malo es que/fue" no se usa el subjuntivo?"

Lo peor, lo mejor, lo bueno is a judgement= juicio

if you use the past tense fue your judgement took place

lo bueno fue que la fiesta estuvo animada
Lo peor fue que la fiesta estuvo desanimada

Lo peor sería que la fiesta fuera aburrida ( possibility, probability)
Lo bueno sería que la fiesta tuviera una banda ( possibility,



"Lo bueno es que tenga/tiene."
"Lo malo es que tenga/tiene."
"Lo extraño es que tenga/tiene."
"Lo probable es que tenga/tiene."
¿En frases así se usa el subjuntivo o no?
Esta fue la respuesta!
Siempre el subjuntivo para ese tipo de construcciones.


Lo bueno es que tenga dinero/plata ( possibility, probability that he has money ( a wish, expectancy)

Lo bueno es que tiene dinero (he really has it)

Lo malo es que tiene fiebre ( he does have it)

Lo extraño es que no hable inglés ( he have lived in UK for 20 years) he does not speak English).
Lo probable es que tenga fiebre ( probabilirty, possibility)

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Ivy29

Lo peor es que lo supiera... ( imperfect subjunctive) possibility, probability, he doesn't know it yet.

You may want to check this as it doesn't relate at all with the meaning of what's in the opening post. You are in fact saying "lo peor es que lo supiere" and using a popular turn of speech that replaces the modern and more generic "sepa" by imperfect subjunctive "supiera" in order to specify it as "llegara a saber". This belongs to the pragmatic aspect of Spanish and, as I already said, doesn't relate with the original meaning of "Lo peor es que sabía desde el principio."

[Ivy2937]

I was answering this :
<<< The worst
"Lo peor es que sabía desde al princípio."
He oido esta frase en la noticías pero pensaba que con frases como esta se usa el subjuntivo "Lo peor es que supiera desde al princípo." >>>

Supiere is the future subjunctive, and I was explaining 'supiera ( imperfect subjunctive) to Jellybaby in the above post. I wonder what I did wrong that i am not aware.
Thank you

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by IVY29

Supiere is the future subjunctive, and I was explaining 'supiera ( imperfect subjunctive) to Jellybaby in the above post. I wonder what I did wrong that i am not aware.
Thank you

What I quoted from your post, as it stands out from my previous post. Again:

Originally Posted by Ivy29
Lo peor es que lo supiera... ( imperfect subjunctive) possibility, probability, he doesn't know it yet.

The only way blue (without "desde el principio") may be right when red is true is the narrow pragmatic use I also commented in the same post. And if blue is "lo peor es que lo supiera desde el principio", then blue intersection red equals empty set.

To everyone, including IVY29: what I said is "

Lo peor es que lo supiera... ( imperfect subjunctive) possibility, probability, he doesn't know it yet.

" is absolutely false and verging agramaticalidad, and no pragmatical use of any social or regional group can be argued in opposition to the fact that "lo peor es que lo supiera" means "obviously he knew" and never "he doesn't know it yet" in a context of learning Spanish, even for very advance students and translators.

[Ivy2937]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

What I quoted from your post, as it stands out from my previous post. Again:

The only way blue (without "desde el principio") may be right when red is true is the narrow pragmatic use I also commented in the same post. And if blue is "lo peor es que lo supiera desde el principio", then blue intersection red equals empty set.

To everyone, including IVY29: what I said is "" is absolutely false and verging agramaticalidad, and no pragmatical use of any social or regional group can be argued in opposition to the fact that "lo peor es que lo supiera" means "obviously he knew" and never "he doesn't know it yet" in a context of learning Spanish, even for very advance students and translators.

Lo peor es que lo sabe ( he knoes it already)
Lo peor es que lo supo (ayer) He knew it already
Lo peor fue que lo supiera (afterthought) he knew it already, and I am making a present judgement about something that happened, but not now or at present ( lo peor fue = simple past)

We must recall that 'imperfect subjunctive' has past, present, and future connotations.

Lo peor es que lo supiera = It is not towards the past, just for present or future ( In order to qualify = lo peor es
Supiera= subjunctive.
Lo peor= It is the worst
(él)supiera = the possibility or probability to know ( not a fact yet)
Lo peor sería que lo supiera ( towards the future, conditional) Hypothetical future) =lo peor sería.
supiera = subjunctive towards the future ( probability, possibility he might know it.
This is my opinion, of course, I could be wrong, but my knowledge of the subjunctive tells me otherwise.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Ivy: What Alec said is that "que lo supiera desde el principio" is implying that the subject had the knowledge, while you said the use of the subjunctive meant that he/she didn't.

This thread is closed to avoid further off-topic.

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