Escribiendo un correo electrónico

[laepelba]

I am writing an e-mail to a friend who has had a really horrible past couple of weeks. She is a native Spanish-speaker, but is also very fluent in English, so we communicate in English 95% of the time.

I have written the first paragraph as follows:
"Estoy escribiendo este mensaje en español para mostrar cuánto yo estaba pensando en ti para los dos últimos días ... pues, realmente las dos últimas semanas..... Por favor, descuida por la gramática y la sintaxis terrible ... y mi pobre palabras opciones!"

I am trying to say the following:
"I am writing this message in Spanish to show you how much I have been thinking about you for the past two days ... well, actually the past two weeks.... Please overlook the terrible grammar and syntax ... and my poor word choices!"

Please correct my Spanish....... I suppose that asking you to do that ought to negate the last part of what I wrote ... but I am assuming that I'm not going to run the wording of the entire e-mail past you (when I've finally written it) to avoid the more personal stuff.....

Gracias!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by laepelba

"Estoy escribiendo este mensaje en español para mostrar cuánto (yo) pensaba en ti para los dos últimos días ... pues, realmente las dos últimas semanas..... Por favor, disculpa/perdona por la gramática y la sintaxis terrible ... ¡y mis/las palabras mal escogidas!"

Corrections above.
Using 'syntax' sounds too stuffy to me. If you leave it in, however, make sure the adjective agrees in number with the nouns.

[laepelba]

Thanks, Rusty!! So ... wouldn't it be "palabras malas escoidas"?

[Rusty]

No, mal is an adverb and adverbs are not declined.

palabras - noun (pl.)
escogidas - participle (non-finite verbal), used as an adjective, so it matches the noun's gender and number
mal - adverb, but it's qualifying an adjective

poorly chosen words = palabras mal escogidas

chosen bad words = palabras malas escogidas

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Rusty

poorly chosen words = palabras mal escogidas

chosen bad words = palabras malas escogidas

Ooooh - a very important distinction!

So that's why I saw "malas noticias" one time? That would have been correct.... Interesting.....

[irmamar]

Thanks, Rusty. I've found that distinction very interesting

Lou Ann, I'd say "bueno" instead of "pues":

bueno, en realidad durante las dos últimas semanas.

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by Rusty

No, mal is an adverb and adverbs are not declined.

palabras - noun (pl.)
escogidas - participle (non-finite verbal), used as an adjective, so it matches the noun's gender and number
mal - adverb, but it's qualifying an adjective

poorly chosen words = palabras mal escogidas

chosen bad words = palabras malas escogidas

In fact I am glad you brought this up Rusty as I have a question regarding this.

In Dutch we have words that are either adjectives, adverbs or something we call 'bepaling van gesteldheid' ('determination of state'). I am not sure of the English equivalent of it. It is a word that is neither fully adjective nor fully adverb as it has a dual function. I.e. it pertains to both the noun it is in reference to as well as the verb. It would in Dutch typically look like an adverb but have this dual function. For example:

She madly stamped her feet >> We would consider this to say something both about the state the subject is in (i.e. 'mad') as well as the way she as stamping her feet ('madly').

or:

'She cooked the chicken deliciously' >> The chicken was cooked in a delicious way, but because it was prepared like this it also became delicious hence saying something about the chicken.

I am not sure if this is just considered to be an adverb in English, as I think it takes on the form of an adverb predominantly in English. I was wondering how this is done in Spanish, do you use an adverb in this case or are there special rules?

Also I read something about there being a rule of never two adverbs ending with -mente in combination, that in that case the first one takes on the form of the female adjective (i.e. the adverb-suffix 'mente' is dropped) - is this correct? For example:

Lo hago orgullosa y especialmente para ti.

[irmamar]

You're right about the adverbs ending in -mente

About the other question, I'm not sure about what you're asking about . In Spanish, adverbs modify a verb, an adjective or another adverb, and that's all:

Como silenciosamente (verb)
Es muy bueno (adjective)
Pronuncias bastante bien (another adverb)

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by irmamar

You're right about the adverbs ending in -mente

Ok gracias !

About the other question, I'm not sure about what you're asking about . In Spanish, adverbs modify a verb, an adjective or another adverb, and that's all:

Como silenciosamente (verb)
Es muy bueno (adjective)
Pronuncias bastante bien (another adverb)

Hmmm yes I know (thanx fr explaining though ).

What I meant is that in Dutch another distinction is made, for a word that is neither an adverb nor an adjective (or both..depending on how you look at it).

For example:

El pollo es bueno (adjective)
El pollo sabe bien (adverb)
El pollo es muy bueno (adverb, adjective)
El pollo sabe muy bien (adverb, adverb)

But in Dutch we have a third kind,a crossing between the two, where the word says something about the verb (like the adverb as well as the noun (like the adjective).

'Ella cocinó el pollo sabroso (o sabrosamente???)'
She cooked the chicken deliciously.

This would say something both of how she cooked it as well as that the chicken became delicious after cooking it the way she did.
Would you use 'sabroso' or 'sabrosamente' in that case? I suppose sabrosamente?

I suppose this third 'distinction' doesn't exist in Spanish otherwise you probably would have recognized what I meant.

[irmamar]

We don't have that distinction. I think you mean that sabroso could modify both noun and verb. But in Spanish the rule is avoid ambiguity in any case:

Cocino el pollo sabrosamente (verb is modified).
El sabroso pollo que cocino. (here I use an adjective to modify the noun, an adverb can't modify the noun).

As adverb modifies verb, adjective or adverb, and adjective modifies a noun, there can't be and adverb which modifies both an adjective and a noun. Language is mathematics, too

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by irmamar

We don't have that distinction. I think you mean that sabroso could modify both noun and verb. But in Spanish the rule is avoid ambiguity in any case:

Cocino el pollo sabrosamente (verb is modified).
El sabroso pollo que cocino. (here I use an adjective to modify the noun, an adverb can't modify the noun).

As adverb modifies verb, adjective or adverb, and adjective modifies a noun, there can't be and adverb which modifies both an adjective and a noun. Language is mathematics, too

I will happily invite you over here to explain this to the people making the grammar rules in Dutch.. I am sure a lot of people will thank you for it...

I understand the rules of adverbs and of adjectives.. we apply them here too the same way.. It is just that we have a third possibility ..

You' re right it makes much more sense this way but it made me wonder how the rules about this were in Spanish.

It's clear now, I have to make a choice between the two and there is no middleroad..

¡Gracias irma!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

I am writing an e-mail to a friend who has had a really horrible past couple of weeks. She is a native Spanish-speaker, but is also very fluent in English, so we communicate in English 95% of the time.

I have written the first paragraph as follows:
"Estoy escribiendo este mensaje en español para mostrar cuánto yo estaba pensando en ti para los dos últimos días ... pues, realmente las dos últimas semanas..... Por favor, descuida por la gramática y la sintaxis terrible ... y mi pobre palabras opciones!"

I am trying to say the following:
"I am writing this message in Spanish to show you how much I have been thinking about you for the past two days ... well, actually the past two weeks.... Please overlook the terrible grammar and syntax ... and my poor word choices!"

Please correct my Spanish....... I suppose that asking you to do that ought to negate the last part of what I wrote ... but I am assuming that I'm not going to run the wording of the entire e-mail past you (when I've finally written it) to avoid the more personal stuff.....

Gracias!

I am writing this message in Spanish - Estoy escribiendo este mensaje en español.

to show you how much - para mostrarte cuanto

I have been thinking about you - he estado pensando en ti

for the past two days ... - por los últimos dos días

well, actually the past two weeks - bueno, realmente las últimas dos semanas

.... Please overlook the terrible grammar and syntax - por favor disculpa la terrible gramática

... and my poor word choices! - y mi pobre elección de palabras.


Espero que te ayude.

[laepelba]

Yes, thank you, Hernán! This is very helpful! I have been fascinated by the phrase with the "poor word choices". I understand the point Rusty was making about the "mal" vs. "malas". That's not necessarily what fascinates me. It's actually the word "escogido". And here you wrote "elección". Interesting! Does "mis palabras mal escogidas" sound awkward? Hmm.....

[Rusty]

Technically, English doesn't have the 'determination of state' functionality you mention above.
The word madly only functions as an adverb, although we would certainly deduce that someone who madly stamps their feet must be angry.
The 'chicken deliciously' example doesn't work as well as the 'madly stamped' example, and even sounds a bit strange to my ears, but it implies how the food was prepared, not how it tasted. So, deliciously also only functions as an adverb.

[sosia]

In spanish you can make it unclear, but as irmamar or rusty stated, it's only because you want it. You must use a word which works for both. Usually the context gives the desired clue.
El le golpeó furiosamente: el estaba furioso o el golpe era furioso?
He hit him furious. he was furious or the punch was furious?
Correct: El, furioso, le golpeó. El de dió un golpe furioso

Ella cocinó el pollo cariñosamente: Cocinaba cariñosamente o trató al pollo cariñosamente?
She cooked the chicken affectionately. She cooked with care or cared for the poor chicken?
Correct: Ella cocinó con cariño un pollo. Ella cocinó un pollo que fue tratado con cariño.

El tiró lejano. He shooted farway. He was far or the shoot reached a long distance?
Correct: Él, lejano, tiró. El tiró un disparo lejano.

But I don't really remember a middle term

saludos

[laepelba]

Thanks, everyone, for this great discussion!

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Yes, thank you, Hernán! This is very helpful! I have been fascinated by the phrase with the "poor word choices". I understand the point Rusty was making about the "mal" vs. "malas". That's not necessarily what fascinates me. It's actually the word "escogido". And here you wrote "elección". Interesting! Does "mis palabras mal escogidas" sound awkward? Hmm.....

You are welcome, and no, "mis spalabras mal escogidas" no suena raro para nada. Solo que opte por otra traduccion. Lo que pasa es que al traducir yo veo la posibilidad que en mi cerebro se ajusta mejor.

poor = pobre ( and not mal, mal even in English is mal, albeit not used much)

Choice = escoger o eligir.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Lou Ann: As Hernán said, there is nothing wrong with "mis palabras mal escogidas".

The only difference between "mis palabras mal escogidas" and "mi mala elección de palabras" is the use of adverb "mal" and adjective "malo".

"Mal escogidas" -> "mal" is modifying "escogidas", which is a past participle (working as an adjective)

"Mala elección" -> "malo(a)" modifies a noun and it must adjust to gender and number (same case for "malas noticias).

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by sosia

In spanish you can make it unclear, but as irmamar or rusty stated, it's only because you want it. You must use a word which works for both. Usually the context gives the desired clue.
El le golpeó furiosamente: el estaba furioso o el golpe era furioso?
He hit him furious. he was furious or the punch was furious?
Correct: El, furioso, le golpeó. El de dió un golpe furioso

Ella cocinó el pollo cariñosamente: Cocinaba cariñosamente o trató al pollo cariñosamente?
She cooked the chicken affectionately. She cooked with care or cared for the poor chicken?
Correct: Ella cocinó con cariño un pollo. Ella cocinó un pollo que fue tratado con cariño.

El tiró lejano. He shooted farway. He was far or the shoot reached a long distance?
Correct: Él, lejano, tiró. El tiró un disparo lejano.

But I don't really remember a middle term

saludos

Si cocinó el pollo, no lo trató con cariño . Después vendrá Brute con el huevo

[sosia]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Si cocinó el pollo, no lo trató con cariño . Después vendrá Brute con el huevo

Siempre se trata con cariño. Por ejemplo los políticos suben los impuestos con mucho cariño