Translating a simple paragraph (Exercise 7-11)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

But "agua" is a noun, and "rara" is an adjective. THAT much I get.... I don't know why you would use "un poco" witih "agua", which is feminine...???

poco (adverb): es muy poco agradecido (he is very ungrateful)
poco (adjective): muy poco vino
poco (noun): un poco de aqua

RAE:

3. La forma poco es también un sustantivo que significa ‘cantidad pequeña’. Se usa precedido del indefinido un y va normalmente seguido de un complemento con de, cuyo núcleo es siempre un sustantivo no contable: «Ahora beba un poco de agua y descanse»

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

It's actually not at all the same in English. I can identify adverbs and adjectives. But I never have to worry about gender/number agreement. That's my issue. Why don't I have to make adverbs agree? Never? Or only some of the time? That's what I'm having trouble with.

Adverbs never agree in gender and number. Adjectives always do

[laepelba]

Let's get back to my real question, attempting to clarify. Given that I understand that "poco" is an adverb in the phrase "un poco rara", I don't understand why it doesn't need to agree with "rara". And, is "un/a" also considered an adverb? So are adverbs always supposed to be singular and masculine?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

It's actually not at all the same in English. I can identify adverbs and adjectives. But I never have to worry about gender/number agreement. That's my issue. Why don't I have to make adverbs agree? Never? Or only some of the time? That's what I'm having trouble with.

Are you sure?

How do you address a ship that sunk at high seas and was painted red?

Originally Posted by laepelba

But you use "el" with agua only because of the vowel-next-to-vowel avoidance. Intrinsically, I know that in the plural it's "las aguas". Are there native Spanish speakers who erroneously use other masculine modifiers with "agua" besides "el"?

Conversely, we say "déme unas pocas aguas para llevar" (give me/I need some refreshments (sodas) to take with me)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

So are adverbs always supposed to be singular and masculine?

No, they are always indeclinable, so you question is meaningless.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

Are you sure?

How do you address a ship that sunk at high seas and was painted red?

Conversely, we say "déme unas pocas aguas para llevar" (give me/I need some refreshments (sodas) to take with me)

A red ship at the bottom of the ocean? What does that have to do with "un poco rara"?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba
It's actually not at all the same in English. I can identify adverbs and adjectives. But I never have to worry about gender/number agreement. That's my issue. Why don't I have to make adverbs agree? Never? Or only some of the time? That's what I'm having trouble with.

Originally Posted by chileno

Are you sure?

How do you address a ship that sunk at high seas and was painted red?

Originally Posted by laepelba

A red ship at the bottom of the ocean? What does that have to do with "un poco rara"?

I am sorry my help does not conform to what you think help should be.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Let's get back to my real question, attempting to clarify. Given that I understand that "poco" is an adverb in the phrase "un poco rara",

I don't understand why it doesn't need to agree with "rara".[ adverbs never agree with nouns/adj´s or any other part of speech besides verbs]

And, is "un/a" also considered an adverb? [yes, but it´s not a separate adverb it´s part of the adverbial phrase, "un poco" or here´s another "poco a poco"

So are adverbs always supposed to be singular and masculine? [yes, but think of it as being in the infinitive form, or not agreeing with any noun. I know theres a word for it but I don´t know]

------

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by chileno

I am sorry my help does not conform to what you think help should be.

It's not that your help doesn't conform to what I think help should be. It's that I don't always see what you're getting at. What does a red boat on the ocean floor have to do with adverb/adjective agreement/non-agreement in English. I don't get it. If you could explain to me what you're getting at, THAT would be helpful to me!

[Here4good]

I just wanted to ask about
She will want to tell me about the movie
translated as
querrá contarme la película
I thought the Spanish implied that she would tell me the whole film and that doesn't correspond to the English. Am I right??

[chileno]

Originally Posted by laepelba

It's not that your help doesn't conform to what I think help should be. It's that I don't always see what you're getting at. What does a red boat on the ocean floor have to do with adverb/adjective agreement/non-agreement in English. I don't get it. If you could explain to me what you're getting at, THAT would be helpful to me!

Once you re-read the posts, you will understand.

I am in no rush.

Originally Posted by Here4good

I just wanted to ask about
She will want to tell me about the movie
translated as
querrá contarme la película
I thought the Spanish implied that she would tell me the whole film and that doesn't correspond to the English. Am I right??

Yes. In Spanish it states that the person will try to tell you about the whole movie.

In English it isn't really implied about the whole movie.

I would translate it as "Ella querrá contarme acerca de la película"

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Here4good:
She will want to tell me about the movie -> Querrá contarme sobre la película (She'll want to tell me her opinions, the things she knows about the movie, etc...)

Querrá contarme la película -> She will want to narrate the movie.



@Lou Ann: I think the first step is that you try to clearly identify adverbs and their functions in English.
Rusty's quoted reply will be useful for you as you study more of them.
I'll make an attempt to introduce some basic notions and examples about adverbs in Spanish... I hope it won't be even more confusing.

An adverb is an invariable part of the sentence which is used for modifying the meaning of a verb, an adjective, another adverb or even a noun or a whole phrase.
There are several kinds of adverbs related to several situations like:
· Place - aquí (here), cerca, (close), (arriba) up
· Quantity - mucho (much), poco (little), bastante (enough)
· Way - bien (well), así (like that), mal (bad)
... etc.


Tomé un poco de agua = I drank some water. -> Adverb. Modifies "tomé".
Tomé poca agua = I drank little water. -> Adjective. Modifies "agua".

Ella es un poco rara. -> She's a little strange. -> Adverb. Modifies "rara".
Ella tiene manías raras. -> She has strange habits. -> Adjective. Modifies "manías".

Me gusta que la comida sepa rico. -> I like that food tastes well. -> Adverb. Modifies "sepa".
Mi abuela cocina sopas muy ricas. -> My grandmother cooks very good soups. -> Adverb. Modifies "ricas". Adjective. Modifies "soups".
Juan es tan torpe, que siempre hace las cosas mal. = Juan is so clumsy that he always does everything wrong. -> Adverbs. Modify "torpe" and "hace".
Juan siempre hace cosas malas. = Juan always does evil things. -> Adjective. Modifies "cosas".

María es muy rara. = María is very weird. -> Adverb. Modifies "rara".

No hablamos mucho, pero somos amigos. = We don't talk much but we're friends. -> Adverb. Modifies "hablamos".
No tenemos muchas conversaciones largas, pero nos queremos. = We don't hold many long conversations but we love each other. -> Adjectives. Modify "conversaciones".

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Lou Ann: I think the first step is that you try to clearly identify adverbs and their functions in English.
Rusty's quoted reply will be useful for you as you study more of them.
I'll make an attempt to introduce some basic notions and examples about adverbs in Spanish... I hope it won't be even more confusing.

An adverb is an invariable part of the sentence which is used for modifying the meaning of a verb, an adjective, another adverb or even a noun or a whole phrase.
There are several kinds of adverbs related to several situations like:
· Place - aquí (here), cerca, (close), (arriba) up
· Quantity - mucho (much), poco (little), bastante (enough)
· Way - bien (well), así (like that), mal (bad)
... etc.


Tomé un poco de agua = I drank some water. -> Adverb. Modifies "tomé".
Tomé poca agua = I drank little water. -> Adjective. Modifies "agua".

Ella es un poco rara. -> She's a little strange. -> Adverb. Modifies "rara".
Ella tiene manías raras. -> She has strange habits. -> Adjective. Modifies "manías".

Me gusta que la comida sepa rico. -> I like that food tastes well. -> Adverb. Modifies "sepa".
Mi abuela cocina sopas muy ricas. -> My grandmother cooks very good soups. -> Adverb. Modifies "ricas". Adjective. Modifies "soups".
Juan es tan torpe, que siempre hace las cosas mal. = Juan is so clumsy that he always does everything wrong. -> Adverbs. Modify "torpe" and "hace".
Juan siempre hace cosas malas. = Juan always does evil things. -> Adjective. Modifies "cosas".

María es muy rara. = María is very weird. -> Adverb. Modifies "rara".

No hablamos mucho, pero somos amigos. = We don't talk much but we're friends. -> Adverb. Modifies "hablamos".
No tenemos muchas conversaciones largas, pero nos queremos. = We don't hold many long conversations but we love each other. -> Adjectives. Modify "conversaciones".

Thanks - that is very helpful. I guess I didn't realize that adverbs never agree with what they're modifying. Maybe you've all told me that before, but I definitely don't remember "absorbing" it until now. That's why when you said "adverbs, adverbs, adverbs", I had no idea what you were talking about. These examples are great.

Some questions/comments about one of your examples:

Me gusta que la comida sepa rico. -> I like that food tastes well. -> Adverb. Modifies "sepa".

First of all, in English, that sentence doesn't sound right. I would think that the word in question modifies the word "food". If so, it's an adjective and it should be "good" (good is the adjective, well is the adverb). "I like food that tastes good." But your word order is different, which leads me to believe you might be trying to say something different. If so, I missed the point of that sentence completely. The reason I think that the sentence sounds awkward in English is because it sounds like you are saying that the food has a mouth and a tongue and that it has a strong ability to taste what is put into it, in a personifying kind of way.... Can you explain this one a bit further?

Second, "sepa" is a conjugated form of "saber"? Does "saber" also mean "to taste"? (I'm looking it up, and that seems to be the case...) With all of the same conjugations? That is VERY interesting.....

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Thanks - that is very helpful. I guess I didn't realize that adverbs never agree with what they're modifying.

Correct. Adverbs are always invariable.

Originally Posted by laepelba

First of all, in English, that sentence doesn't sound right. I would think that the word in question modifies the word "food". If so, it's an adjective and it should be "good" (good is the adjective, well is the adverb). "I like food that tastes good." But your word order is different, which leads me to believe you might be trying to say something different. If so, I missed the point of that sentence completely. The reason I think that the sentence sounds awkward in English is because it sounds like you are saying that the food has a mouth and a tongue and that it has a strong ability to taste what is put into it, in a personifying kind of way.... Can you explain this one a bit further?

Ok. The sentence means that I like food with a good flavour.
Food that can taste with a tongue must be so much Alice in Wonderland though.

Originally Posted by laepelba

Second, "sepa" is a conjugated form of "saber"? Does "saber" also mean "to taste"? (I'm looking it up, and that seems to be the case...) With all of the same conjugations? That is VERY interesting.....

"Sepa" is a subjunctive of "saber".
("Saber", in this case, a relative of "sabor", is not related at all with knowledge but is the same verb indeed).


Este helado sabe chistoso. -> This ice-cream has a funny flavour.
¿A qué sabe el chocolate? -> What's the flavour of chocolate?
Esta sopa sabe a pescado. -> The flavour of this soup is like fish.
Las galletas saben muy bien -> The flavour of the cookies is really good.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Ok. The sentence means that I like food with a good flavour.
Food that can taste with a tongue must be so much Alice in Wonderland though.

So, in English, I would say: "I like food that tastes good." Which brings me back to what I was wondering about this particular example. Doesn't "good" in this sentence modify "food" and not "tastes" (because we aren't talking about being a skilled taster....) That would make it an adjective, right? (Which is why "good" is correct in English and not "well".) So, in Spanish, is it different? Should it be "rico" or "rica"? Does "rico" modify "sepa" or "comida"? Adverb or adjective?

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

"Sepa" is a subjunctive of "saber".
("Saber", in this case, a relative of "sabor", is not related at all with knowledge but is the same verb indeed).

Este helado sabe chistoso. -> This ice-cream has a funny flavour.
¿A qué sabe el chocolate? -> What's the flavour of chocolate?
Esta sopa sabe a pescado. -> The flavour of this soup is like fish.
Las galletas saben muy bien -> The flavour of the cookies is really good.

So, in the first person present indicative, "Yo sé bueno/a" could have a rather risque connotation?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

So, in English, I would say: "I like food that tastes good." Which brings me back to what I was wondering about this particular example. Doesn't "good" in this sentence modify "food" and not "tastes" (because we aren't talking about being a skilled taster....) That would make it an adjective, right? (Which is why "good" is correct in English and not "well".) So, in Spanish, is it different? Should it be "rico" or "rica"? Does "rico" modify "sepa" or "comida"? Adverb or adjective?

I'll risk to be stubborn, but I'd say "good" is working as an adverb there, since it's still modifying "tastes". If food were a skilled taster, then "good" would be modifying "food". But of course I'm not a native English speaker and I will let someone who knows better have the last word on this.

How it should be in Spanish and what the adverb modifies is already written in the original sentence.

Still, I'd like to underline that the equivalent of your English sentence changes a bit the meaning of my original Spanish one:

Me gusta que la comida sepa rico. (I like that the food has a good flavour --for example when you prepare it and like to offer something good for people who will eat it.)
Me gusta la comida que sabe rico. (I like to eat food that has a good flavour) = I like food that tastes good.
(Btw, in both cases "rico" is an adverb.)

Originally Posted by laepelba

So, in the first person present indicative, "Yo sé bueno/a" could have a rather risque connotation?

Ewww! Yes, that's the right conjugation.

Although I think we'd prefer "mi sabor es bueno" or "tengo buen sabor" to avoid confusion.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I'll risk to be stubborn, but I'd say "good" is working as an adverb there, since it's still modifying "tastes". If food were a skilled taster, then "good" would be modifying "food". But of course I'm not a native English speaker and I will let someone who knows better have the last word on this.
tienes razón

Good food (adjective)
Tastes good (adverb)


How it should be in Spanish and what the adverb modifies is already written in the original sentence.

Still, I'd like to underline that the equivalent of your English sentence changes a bit the meaning of my original Spanish one:

Me gusta que la comida sepa rico. (I like that the food has a good flavour --for example when you prepare it and like to offer something good for people who will eat it.)
Me gusta la comida que sabe rico. (I like to eat food that has a good flavour) = I like food that tastes good.
(Btw, in both cases "rico" is an adverb.)



Ewww! Yes, that's the right conjugation.

Although I think we'd prefer "mi sabor es bueno" or "tengo buen sabor" to avoid confusion.

flavour = BrE (flavor AmE)

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I'll risk to be stubborn, but I'd say "good" is working as an adverb there, since it's still modifying "tastes". If food were a skilled taster, then "good" would be modifying "food". But of course I'm not a native English speaker and I will let someone who knows better have the last word on this.

How it should be in Spanish and what the adverb modifies is already written in the original sentence.

Still, I'd like to underline that the equivalent of your English sentence changes a bit the meaning of my original Spanish one:

Me gusta que la comida sepa rico. (I like that the food has a good flavour --for example when you prepare it and like to offer something good for people who will eat it.)
Me gusta la comida que sabe rico. (I like to eat food that has a good flavour) = I like food that tastes good.
(Btw, in both cases "rico" is an adverb.)

I am going to research this with some people who know grammar much better than I do. I'll get back to youi!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Bob: Thank you and thank you.
(I'll be more careful with my spelling... I tend to mix it a lot)

@Lou Ann: I'm sorry I can't be of much help for abstract rules and technical aspects of language.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Lou Ann: I'm sorry I can't be of much help for abstract rules and technical aspects of language.

Sorry? No need for sorry! I should be sorry that I'm tooooo analytical to be able to effectively learn the nuances of a language because I'm focusing on "rules". It's just these little "points" are the things that keep me up at night (literally). I'll figure out why that word "good/well" in that sentence is an adverb ... it just helps me if it makes sense. At least now I *get it* that adverbs are NEVER made to agree...... Don't know how I missed that one before........