Pronouncing all "Rs" as "Ds"

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

be-i bo-a bi-a be-e bu-a

OH MY GOODNESS! That really would be "Betty bought a bit of better butter" to a Brit!! LOL!!! It took me a bit to get it, but that is the crux of the problem, isn't it?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by JPablo

Well, you can hear how Cecilia sang "era feliz en su matrimonio" .

Thanks for that. I've listened a few times and can only hear her say e-a for era with no trace of the slightest 'r' sound. I've clearly got a deaf spot here.

[pjt33]

Hay que tener cuidado porque algunas de las eres suenan más como erres - es normal cuando cantan.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Thanks for that. I've listened a few times and can only hear her say e-a for era with no trace of the slightest 'r' sound. I've clearly got a deaf spot here.

Wow. See what I mean when I say people hear/understand whatever? We all do the same, more or less.

Now can you hear the T's in "era"? I am not joking, just testing...totally serious. it might be that you expect to listen in Spanish, try your English ear side of your brain.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Now can you hear the T's in "era"?

No I can't.

Originally Posted by chileno

it might be that you expect to listen in Spanish, try your English ear side of your brain.

The whole of my brain is English. That's why Betty bought a bit of better butter has 5 very clear identical T sounds, and no R sounds and no D sounds in it. Listening to it being pronounced in a different way is actually painful, and sounds to me as though the speaker is demented or drunk or both.

[pjt33]

There are English accents which would replace all 5 of those 't's with glo'al stops...

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by pjt33

There are English accents which would replace all 5 of those 't's with glo'al stops...

True. And why do you think I left England?

[wafflestomp]

Thanks for the example rusty, and haha, look at the size of this thread!

I have an extreme Long Island accent (pronounced Lawwng Island ) so I understand the examples completely. Thanks again for the help, now I'm going to go drink cawwfee and then have some wawwda.

[Rusty]

You're welcome! I figured your accent would help.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by chileno

Now can you hear the T's in "era"?

Originally Posted by Perikles

No I can't.

You really are deaf!

No. I understand.

Originally Posted by chileno

it might be that you expect to listen in Spanish, try your English ear side of your brain.

Originally Posted by Perikles

The whole of my brain is English. That's why Betty bought a bit of better butter has 5 very clear identical T sounds, and no R sounds and no D sounds in it. Listening to it being pronounced in a different way is actually painful, and sounds to me as though the speaker is demented or drunk or both.

I understand that also. But, you have to make the effort to get this by way of imitating at least the American accent. I guess you have access to American movies, pay attention to what has been said here and try it, even if you think you are listening to a demented and or drunk person.

By the way, drinking some of that wine, before or during the practice might be a bad idea.

[JPablo]

Well, at this point I am ready to not get surprised at nothing...

But to me the "Era feliz en su matrimonio" the sound of the soft "R" is so clear, that I thought it would be unmistakable for anybody...

I thought of another song where you have the "r" and the "rr" sounds,

Era de latón, de latón, de latón de la tonera, era de latón el cacharro de mi abuela. Que con la luna, madre, que con la luna iré, que con el sol no puedo, porque me quemaré. A buscar caracoles, madrugando estoy con un ojo cerrado y el otro abierto. Era de latón, de latón de la tonera, era de latón el cacharro de mi abuela.

The sound maybe is not ideal, but I hope you can hear something this time... (without much wine, please...)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

By the way, drinking some of that wine, before or during the practice might be a bad idea.

Seriously though, it seems that in order to pronouce the soft r correctly, I have to put my tongue behind my top teeth. It has never been there before. I can then produce the r sound (almost) but then I can't produce any other sound because my tongue is in the way. Would surgery help?

Originally Posted by JPablo

The sound maybe is not ideal, but I hope you can hear something this time...

Thanks - I'll keep listening.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Seriously though, it seems that in order to pronouce the soft r correctly, I have to put my tongue behind my top teeth. It has never been there before. I can then produce the r sound (almost) but then I can't produce any other sound because my tongue is in the way. Would surgery help?

No, surgery will not help, although practice will do heaps.

When I got my second job, after my arrival to the US a month later, I had to hear and repeat the word refrigerator (refrigerador) all the time. I almost left the country, because I could not pronounce it. It become sort of a tongue twister for me. I was able to beat that problem by enunciating the word in syllables, according to my mind. That and lot of practice.

[JPablo]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Thanks - I'll keep listening.

Well, here you have some others (in the song you can hear words such as

Jerez
requebro
por el...
verbenas
tremolina

Sure, some of them are not "inter-vocalic", besides "Jerez, the others are combined with a consonant, but the basic sound is very close...
(Tell me if that helps at all... I was looking for someone saying "tararí que te vi"... but I'll search some more...)

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by JPablo

...
(Tell me if that helps at all... I was looking for someone saying "tararí que te vi"... but I'll search some more...)

The problem is that the combination of poor video quality and my computer speakers means that any nuance in pronunciation that I need to hear is lost in background noise. Thanks for the attempt, anyway.

I've just stumbled by accident on something useful when trying to identify a foreign object in the fridge. It was peanut butter. This is typically American, and somehow I can hear the American pronunciation of butter in the name. I guess that when I pretend to be a ventiloquist and say peanut butter without moving my lips, I'm getting there.

[JPablo]

Okay, I listened to Manolo Escobar "Mi carro me lo robaron... ¿dónde estará mi carro?" which, besides his Andalusian accent seems clear to me...
But looks like you are gering there!

Maybe you can hear these (with good headphones, maybe)... in the introduction she says "populares" , and there may be other "r"s there, but the song "la Tarara" may be more audible for you... ("tarara" means loosely speaking, "a crazy woman")

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by JPablo

But looks like you are gering there!

Tarara is much clearer, thanks. It's a weird sound to me, not r not d not t, just a mix of all, and hardly audible.

This problem can work the other way. Recently I had a ridiculous conversation with a Spanish bank manager who insisted on practising her English on me. I just could not understand why the hell she was talking about my car, and what it had to do with her. "Let me see your car" she was saying. What? Why? "OK, it's that one outside, through the window, the red one parked just over there" . What? It finally transpired that she wanted to see my credit card. After several attempts, she failed to say card in a way that I could hear the d, yet she was certain she was saying it.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Tarara is much clearer, thanks. It's a weird sound to me, not r not d not t, just a mix of all, and hardly audible.

This problem can work the other way. Recently I had a ridiculous conversation with a Spanish bank manager who insisted on practising her English on mhte. I just could not understand why the hell she was talking about my car, and what it had to do with her. "Let me see your car" she was saying. What? Why? "OK, it's that one outside, through the window, the red one parked just over there" . What? It finally transpired that she wanted to see my credit card. After several attempts, she failed to say card in a way that I could hear the d, yet she was certain she was saying it.

You are right. Many Spanish learner will "eat" the final consonant.

Most Cubans will say "fahee" for "file" or "kehee" for "cake"

Most of us will definitely eat that final "d" in "card" when learning.

[JPablo]

Well, yes, sometimes is har for us, but couldn't be that ba !

I think you shoul still be able to understan !

(Italians may say, "it is ar to understan"... and we may say "jar to understan")

[chileno]