The invisible 'demasiado'

[Perikles]

I know that demasiado is not used in Spanish nearly as much as too is used in English, and it seems to be avoided everywhere. I have just read the following:

(Mother) - No me has contado todo lo que pasó ayer. Irene y tú habéis hecho el amor, ¿no?

(Son, 30 years old) - Ya estoy viejo para rendirte cuentas.

The sense is quite clear, but the Ya estoy viejo would seem to me to demand a demasiado in it. Is this perfectly normal Spanish, or some obscure Chilean dialect (Isabel Allende)?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I know that demasiado is not used in Spanish nearly as much as too is used in English, and it seems to be avoided everywhere. I have just read the following:

(Mother) - No me has contado todo lo que pasó ayer. Irene y tú habéis hecho el amor, ¿no?

(Son, 30 years old) - Ya estoy viejo para rendirte cuentas.

The sense is quite clear, but the Ya estoy viejo would seem to me to demand a demasiado in it. Is this perfectly normal Spanish, or some obscure Chilean dialect (Isabel Allende)?

Se puede usar de las dos formas.

Wouldn't it make the same sense if I said "Mom, I am already of age/old to be reporting to you"?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Wouldn't it make the same sense if I said "Mom, I am already of age/old to be reporting to you"?

No - that is just not English. The only translations which makes sense in context are "I'm too old..." or "I am old enough not to... "

[poli]

Now that you mention it you are right Pericles, but I think muy can be used to translate too in this case.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

Now that you mention it you are right Pericles, but I think muy can be used to translate too in this case.

Good point - I hadn't thought of that.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Good point - I hadn't thought of that.

In fact I have noticed that some Spanish speakers confuse too with very.--using too which often has a negative implicatation with very which often doesn't. Example: I like you too much instead of I like you very much.

[irmamar]

Maybe "demasiado viejo" is better than just "viejo". I think I'd say "demasiado", but it's perfectly understood without it.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I think I'd say "demasiado", but it's perfectly understood without it.

Only if you are fluent in Spanish.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Only if you are fluent in Spanish.

Maybe I am.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

In fact I have noticed that some Spanish speakers confuse too with very.--using too which often has a negative implicatation with very which often doesn't. Example: I like you too much instead of I like you very much.

That I find is an interesting observation. Everyone says Spanish is an easy language to learn, but I'm beginning to find it a bottomless pit of subtle and indefinable differences.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

No - that is just not English. The only translations which makes sense in context are "I'm too old..." or "I am old enough not to... "

Then that's the one!

Also, you say it is not English because it isn't used, or is a bad phrase construction?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

"Mom, I am already of age/old to be reporting to you"?

Originally Posted by chileno

Also, you say it is not English because it isn't used, or is a bad phrase construction?

It is bad English, it doesn't make sense. There is a big difference between

I am already old enough to be reporting to you and
I am too old to be reporting to you

And your sentence does not make clear which of the two you mean. In my context, the meaning has to be I'm already too old or I'm already old enough not to....

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Perikles: "Ya" is the magic word that makes "demasiado" or "suficientemente" unnecessary, I think.

The sentence is actually saying "ya no tengo que rendirte cuentas (porque tengo 30 años/porque soy suficientemente viejo)".

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

It is bad English, it doesn't make sense. There is a big difference between

I am already old enough to be reporting to you and
I am too old to be reporting to you

And your sentence does not make clear which of the two you mean. In my context, the meaning has to be I'm already too old or I'm already old enough not to....

Like Angelica pointed, isn't it "already" means in this case "enough" or "sufficiently??

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Like Angelica pointed, isn't it "already" means in this case "enough" or "sufficiently??

Yes, thanks everyone, the sense is perfectly clear. The ya makes a demasiado unnecessary, but you still have to rearrange it and insert a negative to make grammatical sense in English. If the demasiado were in there, you could translate literally in English.

[chileno]

So, "I already am a grown up, mother!", would not be ok?

Don't even think of bringing up the "I already am" issue!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

So, "I already am a grown up, mother!", would not be ok?

That is OK on its own, but the second half then makes no sense, and would have to be re-written:

I am already a grown-up, mother, so I don't have to....

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Perikles: "Ya" is the magic word that makes "demasiado" or "suficientemente" unnecessary, I think.

¿Te suena raro "Estoy viejo para rendirte cuentas"? Me parecía que "ya" sirve para énfasis y no es necesario.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@pjt: No, no me suena raro en absoluto (aunque el "ya" me resulta lo más natural en ese tipo de enunciado --no innecesario), pero traté de responder la pregunta de Perikles con respecto a la falta de un "demasiado" que falta en la frase "ya estoy viejo para rendirte cuentas".

Mi elección personal para una frase sin "ya", tratándose de un hijo de 30 años, sería "estoy suficientemente viejo para rendirte cuentas".
Si la frase dijera "estoy demasiado viejo para rendirte cuentas", me sonaría a que el hijo es o se siente mucho mayor (de unos 50 años).

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

That is OK on its own, but the second half then makes no sense, and would have to be re-written:

I am already a grown-up, mother, so I don't have to....

That's a given. It depends on context, situation etc.