Patterns of variation between men and women speakers

[irmamar]

May book says that there are patterns of variation in language between the English speakers according to their sex. For instance, the author says that schoolgirls in Scotland seem to pronounce the /t/ in words like water, while boys prefer a glottal stop (Wardhaugh, 2002). Trudgill (1972) says that in a study carried out in Norwich, he found that women tended to be more conservative in terms of language than men, who used to show more language change.

What do you think? Do you agree with these statements?

Thank you.

[poli]

Yes. This is especially apparent among young people. In the United States young women (often upper middle class) speak in a sing-song jargon called valley talk. I sounds almost Mandarin or Madrid Castillian. I think if bacame popular because it is easily heard on mobile phones. Very few men talk valley.

As far a the glottal stop for water among Scots is concerned, I have heard Scottish women using it. Pronouncing the t in
water is higher class.

[Perikles]

It's difficult to generalize. My daughter speaks with an irritating habit of finishing every sentence several notes higher than the rest of the sentence, as do all her girlfriends, but her husband doesn't, and neither does my son. This is without any noticeable regional accent. Why is this?

[poli]

I have noticed this in young women in the Stats too. It must be an international phenomenon, though I doubt it has reached the Phillipines.

[irmamar]

I'd like to listen to some sentence ending with that high pitch.

[poli]

Look here:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2041258_talk...lley-girl.html

I do not endorse this accent.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

I do not endorse this accent.

Speak with what linguists call a high rising terminal. That means end your sentences with a rising intonation. It's as if you're asking a question with every statement you make.

Oh my god - that's exactly how my daughter speaks. How is that possible when it comes from California? My guess is that it is too much rubbish television.

[poli]

Yes, I fear this renegade accent has invaded Great Britain. It may be the
first class-driven non-regional accent. I agree. It is awful. I hope this
phenomenon with be self-limiting, and future generations will laugh at their
grandmother's valspeak.

[Perikles]

Is it just girls/women? I've heard plenty of females speak like this, but never any males. If this is generally true, why ??

[poli]

This coincides with Irmamar's question about whether there are distinct
speech patterns between men and women in the English language. Valspeak came to mind immediately. Few men use it.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by irmamar

May book says that there are patterns of variation in language between the English speakers according to their sex. For instance, the author says that schoolgirls in Scotland seem to pronounce the /t/ in words like water, while boys prefer a glottal stop (Wardhaugh, 2002). Trudgill (1972) says that in a study carried out in Norwich, he found that women tended to be more conservative in terms of language than men, who used to show more language change.

What do you think? Do you agree with these statements?

Thank you.

I am sure it must happen the same thing in Spain. It does in Chile.

What's more, more likely you (the reader) must have adopted some (annoying to your parents) speech pattern when in school years.

Which brings to mind: You are a unique individual, just like everybody else.

[ookami]

Acá es terrible como hablan la mayoría de las mujeres jovenes (lo que no quiere decir que el resto de la población no hable mal, solo que es menos terrible)
Yo creo que si siguen así, dentro de poco se van a ganar la proclamación de ser integrantes de una especie distinta a la humana. Esperemos que dicha especie esté protegida por alguna ley de caza, porque si no van a estar en peligro de extinción pronto
Prometo mostrar algún video de como hablan más tarde.

* Los mozalbetes no quedan excluídos, pero son más recatados.
** chileno, me hiciste acordar que yo adopté un patrón bastante molesto para mis padres... el hablar mejor que ellos

[pjt33]

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/000873.html

[irmamar]

Thanks for the links, I don't have time to read them, but I'll do later. I'm very interested in this topic.

And I'm not sure if here women speak in a different way from men Surely there must be differences, but this is my first approach to Sociolinguistics in depth and there are questions that I had never asked myself before . However, the few things that I've read about the links and your answers remind me (if there can be any comparison) more to "el habla pija" than a difference between women and men. Anyway, I've read something about the topics used to talk about, but I don't agree that the topics would be a gender difference, but a cultural or educational one, instead. I can see a difference in politeness in both way of speaking and, maybe, women are more sweet than men, who would be a bit more aggressive in their statements. Neither the timbre would be a difference studied in Linguistics, since this is a biological difference.

Actually, I should think, study and listen to other people to realise the differences.

[chileno]

Ookami:

Irma:

In the US there is a notable difference in how young females and young males talk, it is very marked.

In Chile the difference is only in youngsters regardless of sex.

[poli]

Not all young English-speaking women have adopted the sing-song speech known as valspeak or valley talk, but I repeat that it is gender specific and I believe class specific (wealthier middle class). It appears to be the opposite of a classic New York accent, but nevertheless, it is widely spoken in among young Manhattan females.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by poli

Not all young English-speaking women have adopted the sing-song speech known as valspeak or valley talk, but I repeat that it is gender specific and I believe class specific (wealthier middle class). It appears to be the opposite of a classic New York accent, but nevertheless, it is widely spoken in among young Manhattan females.

But Valley talk is one, and the most famous, but not the only type of talk.

[JPablo]

HiI! GuyYs! I come from la CañadaA!

Here is another link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valspeak

Interestingly enough, I am very bad trying to make a "genuine" Mexican accent... I tend to sound like a "norteño" or like an "indiecito"...

I am not bad at doing "Madriz" accent and/or "andalú"

There are so many accent variations in all languages, it is not even funny... But I remember Murray (the Senior/Chef editor of the OED) was totally conversant and able to recognize quite a number of English and Scottish accents, and "know" where the speaker was coming from, just by listening him to speak. Quite an ability, I must say, but like anything, the ability to differentiate at a high level is the power of a powerful analytical mind...

The founder of one important coffee brand (I am not saying the name so as to not to do undue publicity) was (or is) able to differentiate 500 different types of taste on a coffee cup...

I can recognize pretty well Castilian spoken by a Galician, a Catalonian, a person from Madrid, and Andalusian... even a guy from Valencia and from Aragón...

In terms of 'like/dislike', this "high pitch" used by some girls is not something I'd recommend to anyone, but regardless, it is a fact that exists and one should be acquainted with it, so as to be able to understand the persons who use it...

[irmamar]

I agree with you, Chileno, I think that such patterns depend more on the age than on the sex. I asked my husband about it, he's a teacher and he speaks with a lot of people of different ages (another teachers and students) everyday, much more than I do, for if he had noticed any difference between girls and boys when they talked. His answer made me laugh: "¿Te has fijado en esos programas de la tele, tipo X, Y o Z, en que aparecen hombres y mujeres o chicos y chicas? Pues todos hablan igual de zafio."

[JPablo]

Yes, but again, it is quite a 'relative'/'subjective' matter. I was putting the example of the "Norteño" or the "indiecito" "accent" as a comparison with the Valeyspeak, because they have a similar "intonation" at the end of the phrases.

The days in Spain when the "Telediario" was spoken by "perfect Vallisoletano accent" by basque telecasters may be a bit away... and when the first Canary island female telecaster appeared in one of these "Telediarios" was close to the Apocalypse, by Saint John... (Oh, man, what a flap!)

But even Felipe González, the old ex-president during the 80s had this "woiker" accent (really "zafio" = coarse/crude for that matter) but had that 'incredible' appeal for the masses, and so kept being re-elected for 3 or 4 times... until...

Anyhow, I take you are right, the 'accent/intonation' differences have not much to do with sex, although there are obvious points, and phonetic traits that are unmistakable...

The point though, is that "sex" differences are more of a nuance, compared to the 1. regional differences (dialectal/idiolects) and 2. social/cultural level...

At least this is the way I see it.
And like Les Luthiers say (in perfect Mexican accent, although they are Argentinians), "Ándale, Bernardo, ¡cántale ahorita la tuuuyaAA!"