Misled

[irmamar]

Sometimes a speaker is deliberately misled.

¿Es el hablante el que engaña o es el engañado?

Thanks.

[conejodescarado]

El hablante es el engañado. Si no, sería "Sometimes a speaker is deliberately misleading"

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Sometimes a speaker is deliberately misled.

¿Es el hablante el que engaña o es el engañado?

It is hard to imagine a context for the above. A speaker would normally be the one giving information, so he/she could be misleading those who are listening. I don't see how the speaker himself/herself can be the one misled.

[conejodescarado]

Originally Posted by Perikles

It is hard to imagine a context for the above. A speaker would normally be the one giving information, so he/she could be misleading those who are listening. I don't see how the speaker himself/herself can be the one misled.

I agree, but the sentence should be using "misleading" instead of "misled" in that case, which indicates there's an error if that is the case

[sosia]

Originally Posted by Perikles

It is hard to imagine a context for the above. A speaker would normally be the one giving information, so he/she could be misleading those who are listening. I don't see how the speaker himself/herself can be the one misled.

oh, that's quite common.
If you give "distorsioned" statistic to a speaker, he would honestly think he is telling a valuable fact, and it's not.
example: The famous Avian-flu or Influenza A. The speaker (goverment) is deliberately misled (by the farmaceuticals/press), concluding in social alarm and high stockage of antivirals.
Saludos
PD: you're too righteous Perikles

[vita32]

I agree with sosia. It would be similar to "the blind leading the blind" scenario.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by sosia

oh, that's quite common.
If you give "distorsioned" statistic to a speaker, he would honestly think he is telling a valuable fact, and it's not.
example: The famous Avian-flu or Influenza A. The speaker (goverment) is deliberately misled (by the farmaceuticals/press), concluding in social alarm and high stockage of antivirals.
Saludos
PD: you're too righteous Perikles

OK, but in that case, it should be a perfect or even a pluperfect: The speaker (goverment) had been deliberately misled (by the farmaceuticals/press),.... (before he started speaking). The present tense makes no sense. And I'm not accepting the idea that the speaker is not somebody actually speaking

[irmamar]

I have translated "misled" into "engañado", but it coulb be translated into "equivocado", couldn't it?

I'll give more context:

When talking, speakers operate according to a set of assumptions, although misunderstandings and mistakes may occur, and sometimes a speaker is deliberately misled.

Yes, I understand that if a speaker is acting "deliberately" that means that he is aware of his/her speech. But in this context I'm not really sure (or maybe I'm tired ).

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

When talking, speakers operate according to a set of assumptions, although misunderstandings and mistakes may occur, and sometimes a speaker is deliberately misled.

Yes, I understand that if a speaker is acting "deliberately" that means that he is aware of his/her speech. But in this context I'm not really sure (or maybe I'm tired ).

But the 'deliberately' is the action of whoever misled the speaker. Personally, I think it would be much clearer if it read ... and sometimes a speaker has been deliberately misled.

This is a clear passive voice.

[sosia]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I have translated "misled" into "engañado", but it coulb be translated into "equivocado", couldn't it?

When talking, speakers operate according to a set of assumptions, although misunderstandings and mistakes may occur, and sometimes a speaker is deliberately misled.

I think is "equivocado" here.

For example, the speaker is trying to sell something. He begins with a common sexual joke, which usually works, but the audition doesn't like it. Then he IS misled and thinks the audition is too serious, or puritan, and the true reason was that the fictional name he used was from the parish priest.

saludos

[Perikles]

Full marks for inventiveness, but it took long enough to think that one up.

[pjt33]

I don't see what's wrong with saying that the speaker is misled (adjective) now because he was misled (verb) in the past.

[Perikles]

true.

[Apalánter]

Originally Posted by Perikles

It is hard to imagine a context for the above. A speaker would normally be the one giving information, so he/she could be misleading those who are listening. I don't see how the speaker himself/herself can be the one misled.

I agree. But I don't see any evidence between "misleading" and "misled". Can you explain why it's like that?

[irmamar]

I've found another sentence which may trow light upon this "misled":

There are times when our assumptions are wrong and then, mistakes and misunderstandings occur, or when we are deliberately misled by our interlocutor.

That "by" was lacking in the former sentence.

I think "engañado" is the meaning used here.

I'm working with a puzzle of notes; sorry because I couldn't find the last sentence before.

Thanks everybody.