Genie

[María José]

The other day I was looking through a David Crystal book and I came across this box dedicated to a 'contemporary wild child'. I found the topic and its implications in the worlds of psychology and language learning fascinating. I wanted to share it with you, but I haven't had the time. I guess many of you have already heard about her and about lots of other similar examples. Horrifying if you think of the human side of the story, but also helpful and tinged with hope towars the end of the story.
Have a look at this (an extract from Feral children.com... hope I'm not commiting any kind of internet crime; despite Sosia's explanations I'm never totally sure).

Genie (not Jeanie, Geanie, Jeannie or Geannie and, in any case, not her real name) is a modern-day "wild child" who, until discovery at the age of 13, had lived in a state of severe sensory and social deprivation. Strapped to a potty-chair in her home in Temple City, Los Angeles, California, Genie wasn't taught to speak, and was denied normal human interaction.
Read the full story of Genie

Scroll down for The Story of Genie. You can also read more about Genie online in The Civilizing of Genie by Maya Pines, a chapter from Teaching English through the Disciplines: Psychology. You can also read this transcript from the NOVA documentary on Genie.


'Every song has a happy ending' (not quoting any of the greats, just a character in 'One Tree Hill'

[Tomisimo]

Genie is actually well-studied in the linguistics field, because to some extent supports the hypothesis that there is a window for learning language, and once that passes, the human brain is no longer adapted to learning a language. Wikipedia has a good page on Genie.

[María José]

Originally Posted by Tomisimo

Genie is actually well-studied in the linguistics field, because to some extent supports the hypothesis that there is a window for learning language, and once that passes, the human brain is no longer adapted to learning a language. Wikipedia has a good page on Genie.

Thanks. That's the one I wanted to find, and now you've done all the 'dirty work' for me.
You're the best, boss. I'll read it later.

[poli]

These articles started me thinking. I believe that language permits us to have intellectual skills that are unique to humans. When I think, I generally
think in words. Part of the way we learn and solve problems involves categorizing, and words help us categorize complicated things that may be impossible to categorize without them.
I often wonder how other animals think and analyse without words. I wonder if Genie, who missed the language learning window, thinks in patterns that are more similar to that of other animals.

[Marsopa]

This has always been one of my pet peeves in that they only start teaching languages in high school unless you can afford some sort of private instruction.

Marsopa

[María José]

Originally Posted by Marsopa

This has always been one of my pet peeves in that they only start teaching languages in high school unless you can afford some sort of private instruction.

Marsopa

In Spain kids start studying English in both state school and private schools at the age of three and sometimes even in kindergarten, but the end result is not that great. I suppose the teaching methods are not very good in general. Quite old-fashioned and too reliant on grammar in my opinion. I'm for more natural methods that take England and the States... into the classroom, so to speak.

[CrOtALiTo]

Yes I agree with you Mary, I think that the better way of learn it, it's only speaking with them in the language in this case English right, then here in Mexico also the kindergartens teach English but the teacher isn't very ables in the language then I feel that they teaches of a way very poor and so the children's never won't learn nothing about the language.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

Yes I agree with you Mary, I think that the better way of learn English, it's only speaking with them in the language in this case English right, then here in Mexico also the kindergartens teach English but the teacher isn't very ables in the language then I feel that they teaches of a way very poor and so the children's never won't learn nothing about the language.

I have a mistake.

I mean to say:
I think that the better way of learn English

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

Yes I agree with you Mary, I think that the better way of learn it, it's only speaking with them in the language in this case English right, then here in Mexico also the kindergartens teach English but the teacher isn't very ables in the language then I feel that they teaches of a way very poor and so the children's never won't learn nothing about the language.

Corrections below:

I think the better way to learn English is by speaking it in class.
Here in Mexico, the kindergartens also teach English, but the teachers aren't able to speak the language very well.
I feel that they teach it so poorly that the children won't ever learn anything about the language.

[CrOtALiTo]

Okis, thanks Rusty, but in really I believe it, because in Mexico the schools are very poorly in the thread of the education.

[María José]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

Yes I agree with you Mary, I think that the better way of learn it, it's only speaking with them in the language in this case English right, then here in Mexico also the kindergartens teach English but the teacher isn't very ables in the language then I feel that they teaches of a way very poor and so the children's never won't learn nothing about the language.

I agree with you, but not completely, Crotalito.
I have had quite a few students who teach English in primary school and even if their English is not perfect they make great teachers. One of them, for example, teaches children with learning disabilities and last year she gave this talk in class in which she demonstrated how she does it, and I realized I had a thing or two to learn from her.
My youngest son's English teacher speaks French better than English (her English is very good though),but she has what it takes and I have seen first hand how well she connects with the children. Pablo and a Nigerian classmate are in a way exceptions (they are bilingual in a state-funded bilingual school) and I can tell you she is helping them too by teaching them songs and 'concepts' that are usually a bit more difficult for bilingual children:numbers, colours...
P.S. My egocentric moment (this is just for you, Sosia). I make mistakes, and I'm a great, no sorry, a great teacher.

[CrOtALiTo]

Mary, I agree with you, but sometime teachers isn't the sufficient ables of teach to the pupils in the school, because some people does not the academic preparation then How the teachers with bit academic preparation can teach to the children's, I don't believe that a person can teaches to someone English if he hasn't got the preparations sufficient in his career, at least in my country the schools that aren't privates schools, there the teachers don't teach very well, instead the school that yes are privates the education is better, my son study in private schools because the publics schools the level of education is very poorly, also I've seen that the teachers don't put attention to the pupils in the room class, look this what I tell you is without offend to any body right, Mary don't all the teacher teach very well you are teacher, you know as are the people in the schools, I've been teacher too, I've gave class about informatics in the schools, some time the government does put much interesting in the educations of the children of the country in my country that is very democratic, because I give you an example look here:

If you haven't got money for pay a private school, you children won't able of learn the same than other children that's studying in the private school, I speak about the level academic of the schools and the teachers in turn. you can to be a great teacher for your pupils but, not all the people think as you, I'm pleasured with you because I know you defend to the teachers, I was a of them before, but sometime the educations isn't good in some places of the world my this is the case of my country.


Note: this opinion isn't 100% truth, and How I said before, the that I told youis without offending you.

[Marsopa]

Well, here they only start to learn in sixth grade, but only for a couple months per year until ninth grade when they begin "serious" study. Unfortunately, serious doesn't mean much at this point either because they don't take it very seriously and of course, they are no longer at an ideal age for learning.

Marsopa

[CrOtALiTo]

Yes, Marposa it can to be the answer about Why the children's didn't learn English in the primary school, because as much the teachers and the parents don't put interesting in the educations of the pupils.

[poli]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

Mary, I agree with you, but sometimes teachers aren't sufficiently able to teach to the pupils in school, because some people don't have the academic preparation. How can the teachers with only a of bit academic preparation teach to the children. I don't believe that a person can teach someone English if he hasn't got the preparation sufficient in his career. At least in my country in the schools that aren't privates schools, the teachers don't teach very well. Private schools are better. My son study in private schools because in the public schools the level of education is very poor. Also I've seen that the teachers don't pay attention to the pupils in the classroom. Look, I don't wish to offend any with what I say, Mary do all the teachers teach very well? You are teacher, you know how things are. I've been teacher too, I've gave classes informatics in school. Sometimes the government does offer interesting coursed to the children. My country that is very democratic, but I'll give you an example look here:

If you haven't got money to pay for private school, your children won't be able of learn the same as other children that's studying in the private school. I speak about the level academic of the schools and the teachers in turn. You can to be a great teacher for your pupils but, not all the people think like you. I'm pleasured with you because I know you defend to the teachers. I was a one before, but sometimes the educations isn't good in some places of the world. This is the case in my country.


Note: This is just my opinion. I don't wish to offend .

I think Mexico would be a much greater country if they improved their education standards. Children should be first.

[CrOtALiTo]

Poli, tell me I had much mistakes in my last post?

Please don't lie me.

[poli]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

Yes, Marposa it can to be the answer as to why the children don't learn English in primary school. It's because the teachers as well as the parents don't put interest in the education of the pupils.

not too many mistakes

[CrOtALiTo]

Poli.

How you see my English now?

[poli]

Originally Posted by CrOtALiTo

Poli.

How do you see my English now?

I see your English is improving. Pay attention to the corrections, and talk to Oscar. He has a more advanced knowledge of English and may be able to help you.

[CrOtALiTo]

Yes he taught me, English.