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A sentence question

 

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  #1
Old May 05, 2011, 01:11 AM
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A sentence question

Rubén Dario es de Nicaragua y se le conoce por toda Latinoamérica como el «Príncipe de las letras hispanas».

why is the "se le" there? what parts of speech are they?

I am thinking of object pronouns so shouldnt it be "se lo"> because "se" = to them(IOP) and lo = him(DOP)
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  #2
Old May 05, 2011, 03:38 AM
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Yes, "se lo conoce" is the "right" thing, but it's only used regularly that way in the Southern Cone. "Se le conoce" about a person is a good example of oraciones impersonales con se, and it is a widely extended -and tolerated- leísmo (use of le/s instead of lo/s and la/s). The perception is that using le the subject is characterized as a person, while by using lo or la it is characterized as a thing.

But don't think Spanish speakers are mercurial about pronouns as this widely extended use occurs because "se le conoce" is an example of pasiva refleja, so the verb is in third person and active voice but it affects a "sujeto paciente" so le makes sense in some way.
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  #3
Old May 06, 2011, 01:42 PM
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Rubén Dario es de Nicaragua y se le conoce por toda Latinoamérica como el «Príncipe de las letras hispanas».
as alecc explains, the sentence is correct
if you want to avoid problems, you can use
"Rubén Dario es de Nicaragua y es conocido por toda Latinoamérica como el «Príncipe de las letras hispanas».
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  #4
Old May 08, 2011, 12:41 AM
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thank you alec for the explanation. it makes sense to me. thing vs human.

sosia i am trying to understand sentence structure which is why i asked. i am still in the translate in the head before speak or write and i want to get into the thinking in spanish part of it. which is why i am trying to understand the grammar.
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  #5
Old May 08, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Rubén Dario es de Nicaragua y es conocido
Interesante. He creído que era solamente possible usar -do palabras con "estar" y no "ser".
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  #6
Old May 08, 2011, 11:43 AM
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To form the passive voice, you use 'ser + participio pasivo (-ado, -ido)'.
The passive voice in Spanish isn't used nearly as often as we use the passive voice in English. Instead, the Spanish use a passive 'se' construction.
('... y se lo conoce ...' instead of '... y es conocido')
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  #7
Old May 09, 2011, 05:26 AM
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Dice el DPD:


Quote:
f) Es habitual que en las oraciones impersonales con se (→ se, 2.1a) el complemento directo, especialmente cuando es masculino, se exprese con las formas de dativo y no con las de acusativo, como correspondería a la función desempeñada: Se le considera el mejor actor de su tiempo; Se les vio merodeando por la zona. Parece demostrado que este tipo de oraciones se construían originariamente en castellano con pronombres de dativo. El uso de le(s) se ha mantenido mayoritariamente, tanto en España como en gran parte de América, cuando el complemento directo es masculino: «A su bisabuelo hoy no le hubieran permitido vivir como vivió: se le consideraría como un ejemplo de inmoralidad» (TBallester Filomeno [Esp. 1988]); «Se le vio [al niño] algunas veces contento» (VLlosa Tía [Perú 1977]); «Se le obligó a aceptar el régimen de encomienda» (Fuentes Ceremonias [Méx. 1989]); «En los puertos y rincones del Caribe se le conoció siempre como Wito» (Mutis Ilona [Col. 1988]); «Al rey se le veía poco» (UPietri Visita [Ven. 1990]); sin embargo, cuando el complemento directo es femenino, lo normal es usar la(s): «Se la veía muy contenta» (VLlosa Tía [Perú 1977]); aunque no faltan ejemplos de le(s): «Tan enamorada se le observaba, tan desencajadamente arrebolada se le veía» (Vergés Cenizas [R. Dom. 1980]). Se trata, pues, de un caso especial en el que se emplean desde los orígenes las formas de dativo en función de complemento directo. No obstante, muchos hablantes, conscientes de que la función que cumple el pronombre en ese tipo de oraciones es la de complemento directo, emplean en estos casos los pronombres de acusativo, uso generalizado en los países del Cono Sur: «Se lo veía zigzaguear entre los autos» (Cortázar Reunión [Arg. 1983]); «¡No se lo puede andar molestando por trivialidades!» (Magnabosco Santito [Ur. 1990]); «Nunca se lo vio ladrar ni gruñir» (Allende Casa [Chile 1982]).
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