Look at that lady's dog!

[Caballero]

Che si una persona está dando un paseo con una otra persona y una dama tiene un perro, ¿qué debe la persona decir a la otra persona? ¿Es el verbo ver o mirar?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Che si una persona está dando un paseo con una otra persona y una dama tiene un perro, ¿qué debe la persona decir a la otra persona? ¿Es el verbo ver o mirar?

Mirar.

Si uno ve a una dama con un perro uno dice "mira la dama con el perro" o "mira el perro de la dama"

[Rusty]

... con una otra ... (with another)

¡Mira al perro de esa mujer!

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by Rusty

... con una otra ... (with another)

¡Mira al perro de esa mujer!

¿Por qué hay "al"?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Che si una persona ...

¿Che?
¿Che si?
¿Che si una?

Originally Posted by Caballero

¿Por qué hay "al"?

el/la = cosa, animal no personificado o persona deshumanizada
a/al/a la = persona o animal personificado

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

¿Che?
¿Che si?
¿Che si una?

I was trying to say "Hey, if a person is going on a walk..." What is the correct way to say it?

el/la = cosa, animal no personificado o persona deshumanizada
a/al/a la = persona o animal personificado

Oh yes, I forgot about that personal "a" preposition.

So, does that mean that chileno's second two examples:
"mira la dama con el perro" o "mira el perro de la dama"
would be insulting to the lady in the first one, and insulting the dog in the second one?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

I was trying to say "Hey, if a person is going on a walk..." What is the correct way to say it?

I'm not sure even "Hey!" is a correct way to say some 'it', but "Che" is even coarser, as it is something between a vocative and a command. Che Guevara treat everyone using "che" -hence the nickname- and you know what profession he had.

But you wanted to use it, didn't you?

Originally Posted by Caballero

Oh yes, I forgot about that personal "a" preposition.

So, does that mean that chileno's second two examples:
"mira la dama con el perro" o "mira el perro de la dama"
would be insulting to the lady in the first one, and insulting the dog in the second one?

First one: la+dama+con+el+perro is just the scene, and no lady was insulted by saying that.
Second one: the dog is not personified and it even is a "perro" no matter it is a she-dog. Besides, no dog would take insult for such way of address.

[Caballero]

¡Ay! ¡Qué confuso!

That's the correct way of saying "How confusing", right?

but "Che" is even coarser

Hmm. Ok. I always thought it was the same as Hey. In English, Hey, is not really that coarse, nor do I think it would be out of place there. Hey can be used in a friendly manner.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Che si una persona está dando un .....]

"che" se utiliza únicamente en el sur del continente, específicamente en Argentina y posiblemente en Uruguay.

I'm not familiar with the way it's used, but I don't think it means the same as "hey".

So, does that mean that chileno's second two examples:
"mira la dama con el perro" o "mira el perro de la dama"
would be insulting to the lady in the first one, and insulting the dog in the second one?

I don't think it's matter of it being insulting or not. I don't think anyone would feel insulted by that, especially because in the spoken language you would hardly notice if the "a" was pronounced or not, since the verb ends in "a" and we don't normally pronounce both "a's" when talking fast.

However, if I were to write those sentences, I would put "a" after the verb:

"mira a la dama con el perro" o "mira al perro de la dama"

[Caballero]

especially because in the spoken language you would hardly notice if the "a" was pronounced or not, since the verb ends in "a" and we don't normally pronounce both "a's" when talking fast.

Really? Is the /a/ lengthened at least? Or does it just sound like a single /a/?

But wouldn't you at least be able to hear the difference between miralperro and miraelperro?

[aleCcowaN]

As a general rule and independently the way a native speaker would value it, the personal "a" appears when the speaker acknowledges the personality -that is, a behaviour and certain individuality- and that "a" disappears when every sign of personality disappears. When in doubt, people and family pets are consider by default to have a personality.

Regarding to "mirar" both ways are correct depending on what we are watching. The "a" certainly is needed when a behaviour is observed. The "a" drops when some physical aspect is observed, but it can be also kept and nobody will tell that as being incorrect, at most, as being kind of formal (It is the kind of things that make us native speakers think it being a tiny bit uptight and look for an alternative)

Examples:

Mira esa mujer (Mira como está vestida)
Mira a esa mujer (Mira lo que está haciendo)

Again "la dama con el perro" is a scene, so no "a" is required. If in "la dama con el perro", "con el perro" is an adjective -a way to spot this particular lady among the other ladies in sight- then an "a" is expected and certainly it is mandatory when your are going to point personal issues, like behaviour.

[Caballero]

Vale. Creo que comprendo ahora.

Sobre Che:
According to Wikipedia:
Che (pronounced [ˈtʃe]) is a Spanish diminutive interjection (a vocative expression) commonly used in Argentina and Uruguay. A form of colloquial slang used in a vocative sense as "friend", and thus loosely corresponds to expressions such as "mate", "pal", "man", "bro", or "dude"; as used by various English speakers. As a result, it may be used both before or after a phrase: "Man, this is some good beer", or "Let's go get a beer, bro." It can be added to an explicit vocative to call the attention, playing the role of "Hey", for instance: "Che, Pedro, ¡mirá!", "Hey, Pedro, look!". Che is also utilized as a casual speech filler or punctuation to ascertain comprehension, continued interest, or agreement. Thus che can additionally function much like the English words "so", "right", or the common Canadian phrase "eh".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_%28Spanish%29

¿Wikipedia tiene razón, che?
Wikipedia is correct, right?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

¿Wikipedia tiene razón, che?
Wikipedia is correct, right?

Stop being rude and coarse and vulgar -you had one time to be innocently wrong-. People saying "che!" is people saying "boludo!" -sometimes they say "che, boludo!" because the second one is the superlative of the first one-. Some of them think it's OK in every occasion as they are avoiding its superlative. Buy a book and avoid Wikipedia -or use it with a good dose of antihypertensives because of the lot of pinchs of salt you have to take-. About "che" what you found is as valid as Urban Dictionary being a top notch repository of English linguistics.

Use "che" and "boludo" with Skype and Messenger all the times you want among your teenage pals and be as cocky as they tolerate you, but avoid using those terms here as nobody gave you that trust, familiarity and authority.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Really? Is the /a/ lengthened at least? Or does it just sound like a single /a/?

But wouldn't you at least be able to hear the difference between miralperro and miraelperro?

You would if the person spoke slowly. In that case each and every one of the vowels is pronounced. But when speaking fast the two "a's" run together. This is very common in Spanish.

Not only that, sometimes the sounds change:

Mire a María = We pronounce every letter when speaking slowly. However when speaking fast, it sounds more like "miria María" (the "e" of "mire" becomes "i").

Of course, I imagine it also depends on the accent.

[Caballero]

I'm sorry if it sounded rude. I was just using it in the way Wikipedia said it could be used, like the Canadian "eh", which is definitely not rude. If the article on WP is so wrong, then it needs to be changed, and right away as to not mislead people. What should I change it to read instead?

Oh, and what does it sound like in other countries, that don't use it? Does it also sound rude?

me of them is the superlative of the first one-. Some of them think it's OK in every occasion as they are avoiding its superlative

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Do you mean that some people say it all the time to everybody, but to certain people it comes off as being rude?

Do you ever use it yourself, or is it just teenagers that use it?

[wrholt]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Really? Is the /a/ lengthened at least? Or does it just sound like a single /a/?

But wouldn't you at least be able to hear the difference between miralperro and miraelperro?

Consider "va a haber":

All 3 occurrences of /a/ might, perhaps, be pronounced successively in very careful, formal speech by a trained orator: /báaabér/

In typical everyday speech most people say /babér/: all successive instances of the same vowel collapse into one.

Consider "mira el perro" (any old dog on the street) and "mira al perro" (that nice-looking pet with those children).

These are typically /miraelperro/ and /miraalperro/ (with lengthed /a/) in careful speech.

They are typically distinct in ordinary speech: /miraelperro/ (same as careful speech) and /miralperro/ (successive instances of /a/ reduce to one)

In very relaxed speech (such as with your buddies while drinking beer at a party) both of them typically become /miralperro/, as in very relaxed speech it is quite common for an unstressed vowel at the beginning of a word to assimilate with the last vowel of the preceding word, or for the last vowel of a word to assimilate with the stressed vowel at the beginning of the next word. (Assimilate may mean get dropped, collapse with, or form a diphthong with its neighbor.)

-----------------

On my first day of Spanish class in 9th grade, my Spanish teacher wrote the following sample conversation of 2 teenage boys:

(a) Jeet yet?
(b) Yeah, Jew?

Everyone in the class was puzzled: it didn't look like English. Then he had one of us say the words out loud. And even though the sounds were:

/jeet yet/
/yea ju/

we all understood what we heard as:

(a) Did you eat yet?
(b) Yeah, did you?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. Do you mean that some people say it all the time to everybody, but to certain people it comes off as being rude?

Do you ever use it yourself, or is it just teenagers that use it?

I'd never use "boludo/a" to address a person unless I am intended to scold that person for having done that way. About "che" is an intimate treat, as a puppy dog that its playing rude by biting. I hardly use it among family and friends. I use it to address rude people who are behaving in a wrong way when there is a reasonable safety in doing so, for instance, it's very common hearing teachers that have asked repeatedly their students to keep quiet shouting "¡Che! ¡Callense de una buena vez!". "Che" has much to do with power that's why kids and teenagers like to address each other that way (or using "boludo/a" or even worse words). "Che" is like a punch that becomes friendly when the puncher allows the other one to punch back. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, so don't use it here and watch the way it is used with you in other venues.

About "che", a short story by Borges. Many mid class Argentine find it a bit laughable, oh, my!

[Luna Azul]

In every city and town in Colombia there's a main square called "Plaza de Bolívar", in honor of our Liberator, Simón Bolivar.

When talking about it in normal speed (meaning quite fast), we say "place Bolívar"

-¿Dondestá lermana delena?
-En la place Bolívar

[Caballero]

so don't use it here

Ok, I shan't. Is it ok to use other places though, or is it considered highly offensive everywhere?

And what is a good equivalent for "eh" then?

And what about Che pibe?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Caballero

And what is a good equivalent for "eh" then?

Mira aquí.
It's possible to speak English, or any other language, for that matter, without using filler words.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you're learning Spanish, listen to the words and the rhythm used by native speakers. Mimic what you hear. Learn to recognize the culture and soul of the language. When you can reflect the same, then you are correctly using the language.

Saying 'eh' at the end of sentences is OK in Canada, but it sounds strange when used outside of Canada (and places nearby). That particular filler word doesn't exist in my culture, so it has no meaning to me.