By now, by then, by tomorrow

[bobjenkins]

Hola trato de traducir una frase así

Yesterday I met a woman that by tomorrow will have killed me
Ayer conocí una mujer que por la manaña me habrá muerto

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Hola trato de traducir una frase así

Yesterday I met a woman that by tomorrow will have killed me
Ayer conocí una mujer que por la manaña me habrá muerto

Ayer conoci una mujer que por la mañana me habria matado.


Yesterday I met a women that by tomorrow`she has killed me.

[Rusty]

In the sentence below, which I believe works as a suitable translation of your sentence, mañana is an adverb:
Ayer conocí a una mujer que mañana me habrá matado.

por la mañana = in the morning
en la mañana = in the morning (Latin Am)

para mañana = by tomorrow (deadline, a certain time, purpose)
Quiero que lo hagas para mañana.
Para mañana estarán listos.
Son para mañana estas golosinas.
No dejes para mañana lo que puedas hacer hoy.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Rusty

para mañana = by tomorrow (deadline, a certain time, purpose)
Quiero que lo hagas para mañana.
Para mañana estarán listos.
Son para mañana estas golosinas.
No dejes para mañana lo que puedas hacer hoy.

I find this confusing, because para means various things here.

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana.
Does this mean it has to be done before tomorrow, or tomorrow at the latest (i.e. during tomorrow) ?

Son para mañana estas golosinas
Does this mean the sweets are not to be eaten until tomorrow?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I find this confusing, because para means various things here.

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana.
Does this mean it has to be done before tomorrow, or tomorrow at the latest (i.e. during tomorrow) ?

Son para mañana estas golosinas
Does this mean the sweets are not to be eaten until tomorrow?

In both cases you are right.

In the first example, it also applies to English, right?

In the second example it corresponds to "for" in English, right?

Why the confusion? Don't by and for mean several things too in English?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I find this confusing, because para means various things here.

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana.
Does this mean it has to be done before tomorrow, or tomorrow at the latest (i.e. during tomorrow) ?

Son para mañana estas golosinas
Does this mean the sweets are not to be eaten until tomorrow?

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana: It means that it has to be done (by) tomorrow. You can have it done today, but if the day after tomorrow comes and it's still not done, someone will be rather unsatisfied about it.


Estas golosinas son para mañana: They will be eaten tomorrow. In this case, one expects that there is a special occasion --children coming, a party, a meeting, etc.



"El trabajo tiene que estar hecho para la semana que entra" does not mean that you have to start it next week, but rather that you must finish it by next week.

[ROBINDESBOIS]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

Hola trato de traducir una frase así

Yesterday I met a woman that by tomorrow will have killed me
Ayer conocí una mujer que por la manaña me habrá muerto

Mi translation in this case:
Ayer conocí a una mujer que el día de mañana me habría matado.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana: It means that it has to be done (by) tomorrow. You can have it done today, but if the day after tomorrow comes and it's still not done, someone will be rather unsatisfied about it.

Thanks - so there is a difference of meaning between

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana: and
I want you to do it by tomorrow.

The first one means before the day after tomorrow
The second one means before tomorrow

I find this very confusing. No wonder nothing ever gets done in Tenerife - nobody understands a time limit.

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

"El trabajo tiene que estar hecho para la semana que entra" does not mean that you have to start it next week, but rather that you must finish it by next week.

Just so I'm clear about this - do you mean that the work must be done before the start of next week? (sorry to be a pain)

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Thanks - so there is a difference of meaning between

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana: and
I want you to do it by tomorrow.

The first one means before the day after tomorrow
The second one means before tomorrow

I find this very confusing. No wonder nothing ever gets done in Tenerife - nobody understands a time limit.

Perikles:

You are confusing yourself....

Let's use another, or rather add something to those phrases...

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana (antes de las 10am)
I want you to do it by tomorrow. (before 10am)

Does that help you?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Perikles:
Quiero que lo hagas para mañana (antes de las 10am)
I want you to do it by tomorrow. (before 10am)

Does that help you?

That is absolutely clear, but seems to disagree with this:

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Quiero que lo hagas para mañana: It means that it has to be done (by) tomorrow. You can have it done today, but if the day after tomorrow comes and it's still not done, someone will be rather unsatisfied about it.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Perikles:

There is no contradiction. If you don't have a specific deadline, you have the rest of today and tomorrow's 24 hours to get the work done.

When the mason says "la pared va a estar para mañana", it means he will be working on it today, and may finish it tomorrow, before 6pm, which is the hour their working day ends.

When you say in a classroom: "Para mañana, lean el capítulo 3", it's assumed pupils have to read it before tomorrow's class.

If you have an important appointment for submitting a job, "para mañana" means it has to be done before that appointment.

[hermit]

Otro ejemplo para los estudiantes nuevos:

"Te veo mañana." - I'll see you tomorrow.

"¿Mañana por la mañana?" - Tomorrow morning?

"Si, por la mañana." - Yes, in the morning.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by hermit

Otro ejemplo para los estudiantes nuevos:

"Te veo mañana." - I'll see you tomorrow.

"¿Mañana por la mañana?" - Tomorrow morning?

"Si, por la mañana." - Yes, in the morning.

Yes they are correct.

Congratulation.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Perikles:

There is no contradiction. If you don't have a specific deadline, you have the rest of today and tomorrow's 24 hours to get the work done.

OK, I suppose my confusion lies in the English 'by tomorrow / for tomorrow' I no longer know whether 'by tomorrow' means 'before tomorrow' or 'before the end of tomorrow'

I'm still confused, but thanks anyway.

[pjt33]

Pues creo que "by tomorrow" quiere decir "antes de que empiece mañana" por defecto, pero que el significado depende del contexto. Por ejemplo

She's just an old windbag, she'll have forgotten by tomorrow => Cuando se levanta mañana ya habrá olvidado lo que sea.
It will be ready by tomorrow => Puedes venir mañana cuando quieras para llevarlo.

Pero

If I send it first class, will this letter reach London by tomorrow morning? => Si llegará mañana por la mañana está bien, pero si no tendré que buscar otra manera de enviarla.

Parte (¿gran parte?) de la ambigüedad es porque "mañana" a menudo no connota ni 00:00-23:59 del día que viene ni desde cuando se levante el día que viene hasta cuando se acueste sino algún evento o tiempo implícito. En el ejemplo de Angélica "Para mañana, lean el capítulo 3" ("Read chapter 3 for/by tomorrow"), "mañana" refiere a "la clase que tendremos mañana".

A veces hay que hacer explícito el tiempo para que tú y tu interlocutor no lleguéis a opiniones distintas del tiempo implícito. Entonces, Perikles, quizás deberías decir al albañil, "¿Estará lista para que entre mañana por la mañana?"

[laepelba]

But there is some context that is necessary here, too:

- To my students: "Your online test needs to be done by tomorrow." (My students know me, and know the expectations, and if they have to have something finished by a certain day, it means that they have to have it done prior to the beginning of class, whatever time during the day that may be.)
- A colleague to her students: "Your online test needs to be done by tomorrow." (Her students know her, and know her expectations, and they know that when she wants a particular assignment completed, it has to be by the end of the school day, about 2:30pm.)
- Your example sentence: "The old windbag will have forgotten about it by tomorrow." (Yes, I would expect that to mean that when she wakes up in the morning, she'll have forgotten about whatever it is...)

????

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by pjt33

Pues creo que "by tomorrow" quiere decir "antes de que empiece mañana" por defecto, pero que el significado depende del contexto. En el ejemplo de Angélica "Para mañana, lean el capítulo 3" ("Read chapter 3 for/by tomorrow"), "mañana" refiere a "la clase que tendremos mañana".

A veces hay que hacer explícito el tiempo para que tú y tu interlocutor no lleguéis a opiniones distintas del tiempo implícito. Entonces, Perikles, quizás deberías decir al albañil, "¿Estará lista para que entre mañana por la mañana?"

Thanks very much, pjt, for the input - that is how I understand it. The examples given by Angelica are clear, except for

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

When the mason says "la pared va a estar para mañana", it means he will be working on it today, and may finish it tomorrow, before 6pm, which is the hour their working day ends.

which is not how I would understand it. (and in Tenerife it means in three weeks time anyway)

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Perikles

(and in Tenerife it means in three weeks time anyway)

Ha Ha! I read somewhere once that mañana means not today. This is certainly true.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Thanks very much, pjt, for the input - that is how I understand it. The examples given by Angelica are clear, except for
which is not how I would understand it. (and in Tenerife it means in three weeks time anyway)

If you you to the Post Office and you are told that your letter will arrive by tomorrow.

I bet you want to know exactly at what time tomorrow will my letter be there.

Does it make it any clearer?

As to your comment about Tenerife. In Chile you have to tell people the time you want them to arrive at least 2 hours prior of what actually is.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

If you you to the Post Office and you are told that your letter will arrive by tomorrow.

I bet you want to know exactly at what time tomorrow will my letter be there.

Does it make it any clearer?

Well, it does in that it is in the same category as 'the homework must be done for tomorrow'. It makes it clear that a specific time is required or understood. The 'homework' example is clear because there is an (unstated) time (the lesson tomorrow). The post office letter is fairly clear in that you know that there is a time of day when letters are available. You know the letter will be there by (say) midday, not 18.00.

As for building the wall, it is clear that para mañana needs further info, like a time of day, for it to be unambiguous.