"tener pena" vs. "dar pena"

[NiCACHiCA]

In one of my spanish books I am studying out of, it gives expressions used with "tener" and one of them is "tener pena" for "I am sad or embarrassed". From my experience, I have always heard "dar pena" for this expression. And the expression I've heard seems to be more associated with shame or embarrassment than sadness. Are they both correct?

Also, maybe someone could give me a few examples of both? Thanks so much!!

[poli]

Originally Posted by NiCACHiCA

In one of my spanish books I am studying out of, it gives expressions used with "tener" and one of them is "tener pena" for "I am sad or embarrassed". From my experience, I have always heard "dar pena" for this expression. And the expression I've heard seems to be more associated with shame or embarrassment than sadness. Are they both correct?

Also, maybe someone could give me a few examples of both? Thanks so much!!

In Latin American Spanish: Me da pena means it embarrasses me.
Tengo pena means I'm embarrassed
You can always say: Me da vergüenza Tengo vergúenza

[bobjenkins]

Siempre leo
me da pena
me ha dado pena
me vergüenza
me avergüenza
qué pena me da

[chileno]

Originally Posted by NiCACHiCA

In one of my spanish books I am studying out of, it gives expressions used with "tener" and one of them is "tener pena" for "I am sad or embarrassed". From my experience, I have always heard "dar pena" for this expression. And the expression I've heard seems to be more associated with shame or embarrassment than sadness. Are they both correct?

Also, maybe someone could give me a few examples of both? Thanks so much!!

Originally Posted by poli

In Latin American Spanish: Me da pena means it embarrasses me.
Tengo pena means I'm embarrassed
You can always say: Me da vergüenza Tengo vergúenza

Not all LA expresses themselves like that.

Pena/tristeza= sadness

Shame=vergüenza

In Chile, tengo/me da vergüenza/pena/tristeza.

[poli]

This confirms it:
vergüenza is the safest word for embarrassment.

As you can see pena meaning embarrassment is very regional.

Avergonzar is a verb, and I believe I have heard : siento avergonazado.

I'm sure it can be done, but I have never heard ther verb avergonzar conjugated in common speech (by this I mean :avergüezo, as , a).

[chileno]

Originally Posted by poli

This confirms it:
vergüenza is the safest word for embarrassment.

As you can see pena meaning embarrassment is very regional.

Avergonzar is a verb, and I believe I have heard : siento avergonazado.

I'm sure it can be done, but I have never heard the verb avergonzar conjugated in common speech (by this I mean :avergüenzo, as , a).

Presta más atención, porque lo más seguro que si lo has hecho.

Te avergüenzo con esto?

Te avengonzé con esto?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Poli: "me siento avergonzado" (I feel ashamed)
"Avergonzar" is often heard conjugated.

- Me avergüenzan las cosas que hace mi padre. -> I'm ashamed for the things my father does.
- ¿No te avergüenza vestirte así? -> Aren't you ashamed to dress like that?
- Y ni siquiera se avergonzaron de lo que habían dicho. -> And they weren't even ashamed for what they had said.


@Hernán: "avergoncé"

Originally Posted by NiCACHiCA

In one of my spanish books I am studying out of, it gives expressions used with "tener" and one of them is "tener pena" for "I am sad or embarrassed". From my experience, I have always heard "dar pena" for this expression. And the expression I've heard seems to be more associated with shame or embarrassment than sadness. Are they both correct?

Also, maybe someone could give me a few examples of both? Thanks so much!!

As everyone, has said, both are correct. I will just add some examples:


Tener una pena -> to be sad (here, pena = sorrow/sadness)
Tener pena/vergüenza -> to feel embarrassed or ashamed

- Tenemos una pena muy grande: mi padre murió ayer. -> We have a very deep sorrow: my father died yesterday.

- Tengo pena de pedirle ayuda. = Me da pena pedirle ayuda. = Me da vergüenza pedirle ayuda. -> I'm embarrased to ask him for help.


"Darle pena a alguien":

- Me da pena (me da vergüenza) que me veas así. -> I'm embarrased that you see me like this.
- Le dio pena (le dio vergüenza) no poder ayudarme y se fue. -> He was sorry that he couldn't help me and he left.
- El vagabundo me dio pena (me dio lástima) y le di una limosna. -> I took pity on the homless man and I gave him some money.
- Cuando murió el abuelo todos sentimos pena (sentimos lástima) por la abuela, que estaba tan triste. -> When grandfather died we all felt sorry for grandmother, who was so sad.

[bobjenkins]

¿cómo se va el subjuntivo con avergonzar? Seguro que es lo mismo como otros verbos de animo.

Me siento avergonzado de que yo me portara así

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

¿cómo se va (or "cómo se usa") el subjuntivo con avergonzar? Seguro que es lo mismo como otros verbos de animo.
Right.

Me siento avergonzado de que yo me portara así

Your sentence is not exactly wrong, but:

When the subject is the same, the second verb is not conjugated: Me siento avergonzado de haberme portado así.

When the subject is different, the second verb is conjugated in subjunctive:
- Me siento avergonzado de que mi hermano se portara así.
- Me avergüenza que mi hermano se haya portado así.
- Me siento avergonzado de que mi hermano se haya portado así.
- Me avergüenza que mi hermano se portara así.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

@Hernán: "avergoncé"

Duh. Claro. Es que me zentí ezpañol por un rato.

[NiCACHiCA]

You guys are awesome!!! And I'm sure everyone around the forum thanks you often, but really, thank you so much for taking the time to help the beginners like me!! Some days I wonder if I'll ever get where I want to be with Spanish. But I know it's a life-long process! THANKS AGAIN!

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

"Darle pena a alguien":

- Me da pena (me da vergüenza) que me veas así. -> I'm embarrased that you see me like this.
- Le dio pena (le dio vergüenza) no poder ayudarme y se fue. -> He was sorry that he couldn't help me and he left.
- El vagabundo me dio pena (me dio lástima) y le di una limosna. -> I took pity on the homless man and I gave him some money.
- Cuando murió el abuelo todos sentimos pena (sentimos lástima) por la abuela, que estaba tan triste. -> When grandfather died we all felt sorry for grandmother, who was so sad.

On the second example, does "sorry" mean he was embarrassed that he couldn't help you and that's why he left? Or that maybe he was in a hurry or had an appointment and was sorry he couldn't stay to help? And would there be a difference in words used between the two scenarios?

And I don't mean to start a whole other discussion, but those questions bring up something that I encountered last night talking to a Nicaraguan friend. Her husband is sick with the flu and I told her to tell him "lo siento" because in the US when someone is sick, we always say I'm sorry (not even sure why we say that! haha). Well, she laughed at me and started to explain that lo siento is not used for that, but she never really explained it. I woke up this morning thinking about it and decided I'd ask my friends here if they could shed some light on the issue!

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Your sentence is not exactly wrong, but:

When the subject is the same, the second verb is not conjugated: Me siento avergonzado de haberme portado así.

When the subject is different, the second verb is conjugated in subjunctive:
- Me siento avergonzado de que mi hermano se portara así.
- Me avergüenza que mi hermano se haya portado así.
- Me siento avergonzado de que mi hermano se haya portado así.
- Me avergüenza que mi hermano se portara así.

GRacias. Sé que es normal de escribir así, pero he visto unos casos distintos en los que se escribe de otra manera . De vez en cuando estoy confundido sobre eso.

Espero que yo pueda hacerlo tarde

¿Hay reglas? espero que haya solamente unos pocos de casos así porque puede ser confundido

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by NiCACHiCA

On the second example, does "sorry" mean he was embarrassed that he couldn't help you and that's why he left? Or that maybe he was in a hurry or had an appointment and was sorry he couldn't stay to help? And would there be a difference in words used between the two scenarios?

The sentence:

Le dio pena (le dio vergüenza) no poder ayudarme y se fue. -> He was sorry that he couldn't help me and he left.

means that he found there was nothing he could to to help (and felt ashamed or useless) and he decided to leave.


If he had been in a hurry, the sentence would have been explicit about it:

Le dio pena tener que irse y no poder quedarse a ayudarme. -> He was sorry that he had to go and couldn't stay to help me.

Originally Posted by NiCACHiCA

And I don't mean to start a whole other discussion, but those questions bring up something that I encountered last night talking to a Nicaraguan friend. Her husband is sick with the flu and I told her to tell him "lo siento" because in the US when someone is sick, we always say I'm sorry (not even sure why we say that! haha). Well, she laughed at me and started to explain that lo siento is not used for that, but she never really explained it. I woke up this morning thinking about it and decided I'd ask my friends here if they could shed some light on the issue!

Although you can say "siento (mucho) que tu esposo esté enfermo" [I'm sorry that you'r husband is ill], "lo siento" may be felt too formal... It's often heard when someone dies and one says comfort word to relatives, or when one is apologizing for something wrong one has done.

- Lo siento. No volveré a insultarte. -> I'm sorry. I'll never insult you again.
- Supe que tu hermano murió. Lo siento mucho. -> I heard your brother has died. I'm very sorry (for you).


If your friend's husband is sick, you can say:

- Qué lástima. Ojalá se recupere pronto. -> It's a shame. Hopefully he'll recover soon.
- ¡Pobre! Espero que se sienta mejor. -> Poor him! I hope he'll be feeling better.
- ¡Qué barbaridad! Ojalá que pronto esté bien. -> That's terrible! I hope he'll be alright soon.

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

GRacias. Sé que es normal de escribir común que se escriba así, pero he visto unos casos distintos en los que se escribe de otra manera . De vez en cuando A veces estoy me siento confundido sobre eso.

("De vez en cuando" is rather used for something that has been intended or some irregular habit: "De vez en cuando paseo en bicicleta". For something that just happens, "a veces" sounds better.)

¿Hay reglas? espero que haya solamente unos pocos de casos no haya muchos casos/espero que haya pocos casos así porque puede ser confundido confuso.

Ojo: "Unos pocos" is exclusively used when "pocos" is a substantive.

- Creí que habría muchos fans esperando autógrafos, pero sólo había unos pocos. -> I thought there would be many fans waiting for autographs, but there were just a few.
- Tenía muchas monedas, pero ya sólo me quedan unas pocas. -> I used to have many coins, but now I only have a few.

It's true that many people use the subjunctive with the same subject, but the sentences sound clumsy. Infinitive is definitely better.
If there is a formal rule, is what I've said before: "same person => infinitive", "different person => subjunctive".

Espero poder hacerlo más tarde. ->I hope I can do it later.
Espero que puedas hacerlo más tarde. -> I hope you can do it later.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

It's true that many people use the subjunctive with the same subject, but the sentences sound clumsy. Infinitive is definitely better.
If there is a formal rule, is what I've said before: "same person => infinitive", "different person => subjunctive".

Espero poder hacerlo más tarde. ->I hope I can do it later.
Espero que puedas hacerlo más tarde. -> I hope you can do it later.

Muchas gracias por aclararlo y las correcciones!
Así es más simple

Espero tener mucho éxito en mi aprendizaje

PD: sustantivos son las cosas que son concretas, ¿verdadero?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by NiCACHiCA

You guys are awesome!!! And I'm sure everyone around the forum thanks you often, but really, thank you so much for taking the time to help the beginners like me!! Some days I wonder if I'll ever get where I want to be with Spanish. But I know it's a life-long process! THANKS AGAIN!



On the second example, does "sorry" mean he was embarrassed that he couldn't help you and that's why he left? Or that maybe he was in a hurry or had an appointment and was sorry he couldn't stay to help? And would there be a difference in words used between the two scenarios?

And I don't mean to start a whole other discussion, but those questions bring up something that I encountered last night talking to a Nicaraguan friend. Her husband is sick with the flu and I told her to tell him "lo siento" because in the US when someone is sick, we always say I'm sorry (not even sure why we say that! haha). Well, she laughed at me and started to explain that lo siento is not used for that, but she never really explained it. I woke up this morning thinking about it and decided I'd ask my friends here if they could shed some light on the issue!

In the case of your sick friend. We do not say "I am sorry" but I hope she/he gets well son, and that's it.

We say "lo siento" if the person has had an accident or some other major thing including death.

[ROBINDESBOIS]

In Spain
Tener pena = To feel sad
Dar pena = to be sorry for

[Jane]

Originally Posted by ROBINDESBOIS

In Spain
Tener pena = To feel sad
Dar pena = to be sorry for

When you say ¡que pena! doesn´t that also mean, What a pity!

Another thing is that I´ve always being intruiged by the different uses of:
¡Que pena!
¡Que lastima!
¡Que verguenza!
and how other Latin American countries use them?

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by Jane

When you say ¡que pena! doesn´t that also mean, What a pity!

Another thing is that I´ve always being intruiged by the different uses of:
¡Que pena!
¡Que lastima!
¡Que verguenza!
How do other Latin American countries use them?

Sí, ¡qué pena! = what a pity! (creo )

[poli]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Sí, ¡qué pena! = what a pity! (creo )

seguro

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Jane

When you say ¡que pena! doesn´t that also mean, What a pity!

Another thing is that I´ve always being intruiged by the different uses of:
¡Que pena!
¡Que lastima!
¡Que verguenza!
and how other Latin American countries use them?

What a pity means both "Qué pena" y "Qué lástima"

"Qué vergüenza" = What a shame.

Problem is that some LA countries equate "Qué pena" with "Qué vergüenza"