Un monarca distinto a

[irmamar]

No sé muy bien la sintaxis correcta en esta oración:

...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch (a monarch different) to that on the English throne.

...para que Escocia no escogiera un monarca distinto al que ocupaba el trono inglés (más o menos es lo que quiero decir).

Thanks.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch (a monarch different) to that on the English throne.

... to ensure that Scotland would not choose a monarch different to the monarch on the English throne.

This is really awkward. I don't like the 'that' which is too neuter for a monarch, but I'm not sure whether this is incorrect, or just style.

[irmamar]

But twice "monarch"...

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

But twice "monarch"...

... to ensure that Scotland did not choose a monarch other than the one occupying the English throne.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

When I asked about a similar use of "diferente de", I was suggested to use "different than" or "different from"... would the sentence be alright like:

- ...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch than the one occupying the English throne.

- ...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch from the one occupying the English throne.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

- ...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch than the one occupying the English throne.

- ...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch from the one occupying the English throne.

I have now said all possible combinations so many times that I no longer know which are correct. I still claim that different monarch is inferior to a monarch different, so

- ...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a monarch different from the one occupying the English throne.

The reason (I think) is that if you start reading
- ...to ensure that Scotland would not choose a different monarch ... then you are prepared for the idea of a comparison of monarchs within Scotland. The other expression monarch different from points you in the right direction.

[pjt33]

I would find "...did not choose a monarch distinct from the one..." plausible, but I suspect this is because of the technical subculture I inhabit.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Perikles: Thank you!

[poli]

I'm sorry if it appears that I am complicating things, but language lovers
may appreciate this:
A monarch different from.... indicates an altered monarch. It may be the
same king but with a new agenda.
A different monarch from... indicates a new and different king. Its a different governing family altogether.

The difference in meaning is quite fine, and they can be interchanged.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by poli

A monarch different from.... indicates an altered monarch. It may be the
same king but with a new agenda.
A different monarch from... indicates a new and different king. Its a different governing family altogether..

I can't agree. Why do you claim this difference?

[poli]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I can't agree. Why do you claim this difference?

Maybe...
Hosne Mubarak at first proposed to be a leader different from the Hosne Mubarak of the past, but the Egyptians demanded a different leader altogether.

....or maybe a subsequent preposition gives English speakers more freedom as to where we place our adjectives. I feel free to say "a different leader from the Hosne..., or a leader different from the Hosne, but I know I cannot say a leader different altogether unless I was poking fun at someone learning English and I don't usually do that.

What do you think?

[Perikles]

Hmmm - unconvinced. The trouble is that the whole structure sounds rather clumsy no matter which combination of words is used, so I no longer claim to see any difference.

[irmamar]

I don't understand very well what you are saying. But if it can be helpful, the context of the sentence is the Act of Union of 1707. England and Scotland were different states with different legislatures, but with the same monarch. This Act joined both kingdoms. So, I'm not sure if there is a difference between "a different monarch from" and "a monarch different from", because the other possibility was that the king was another person, a Scottish king, instead an English king (Queen Anne inherited both kingdoms). I mean, either Queen Anne was queen of Scotland or not (English throne was sure). No more possibilities.

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I don't understand very well what you are saying. But if it can be helpful, the context of the sentence is the Act of Union of 1707. England and Scotland were different states with different legislatures, but with the same monarch. This Act joined both kingdoms. So, I'm not sure if there is a difference between "a different monarch from" and "a monarch different from", because the other possibility was that the king was another person, a Scottish king, instead an English king (Queen Anne inherited both kingdoms). I mean, either Queen Anne was queen of Scotland or not (English throne was sure). No more possibilities.

Acabo de leer la página de Wikipedia sobre el Act of Union y me parece que has sacado la frase de ahí. Pues se trata del sucesor de Anne, y no de ella misma.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by pjt33

Acabo de leer la página de Wikipedia sobre el Act of Union y me parece que has sacado la frase de ahí. Pues se trata del sucesor de Anne, y no de ella misma.

No, la he sacado de mi libro.

EDIT: Tienes razón, no la he sacado de mi libro, sino de apuntes que me pasaron, por lo que no sé la fuente (ya miraré la Wiki, a ver). Pero tiene que ser Anne, ya que reinó hasta 1714 (según mi guía).