Para tras

[iamcliff]

Hay varias personas quien hablan español a mi trabajo. El otro día necesitaron ayuda para mover un pequeño carro médico. Ya lo he movido una vez.

Una de ellas me dijo:

"Necesito pongas para tras el carro."

I'm pretty sure this is what she said. I didn't understand the "tras" part, then when I had a confused look on my face she helped me by saying "put it back."

I told her later that I didn't know the word "tras" and she specified that she had said two words, "para tras."

Tengo dos preguntas:

1. Why "necesito pongas" instead of something like "te necesito poner?"

2. I don't understand "para tras." I looked up "tras" and it means "behind" or "after." So I don't understand "for after" as the meaning. Maybe she was referring to the work they had just completed? They needed me to put the car back "for after" the work, perhaps?

Creo que ella es de Guatemala, si importa.

[wrholt]

Probably what she was saying was "para atrás", which in ordinary speech is pronounced exactly the same way as "para tras", meaning "backwards, in reverse". (At normal conversational speeds, when 2 or more instances of the same vowel occur in series, they are pronounced as if there is only one instance: "va a hacer" and "va a ser" are pronounced the same way, as 2 syllables "va-ser".)

[iamcliff]

Originally Posted by wrholt

Probably what she was saying was "para atrás", which in ordinary speech is pronounced exactly the same way as "para tras", meaning "backwards, in reverse". (At normal conversational speeds, when 2 or more instances of the same vowel occur in series, they are pronounced as if there is only one instance: "va a hacer" and "va a ser" are pronounced the same way, as 2 syllables "va-ser".)

Ahh, that makes way more sense to me now. I did have to push the car backwards to get it back where it belonged. This must be what she was saying, but I couldn't hear the break between the words, as you said. Thanks a lot!

[wrholt]

Oh, and the other question on "necesito pongas": it should be "necesito que pongas".

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by iamcliff

Hay varias personas que hablan español en mi trabajo. El otro día necesitaron ayuda para mover un pequeño carro médico.

Originally Posted by wrholt

"va a hacer" and "va a ser" are pronounced the same way

But not in parts of Spain.

To expand on what wrholt said about your first question, when there is a change in subject, verbs of volition (like necesitar and querer) always adhere to the structure he demonstrated. There should be two clauses, separated with the conjunction que. The first clause contains the verb of volition, conjugated for the primary subject. The secondary clause, where the change of subject occurs, also contains a conjugated verb, in the subjunctive mood.

I want you to eat.
Quiero que comas.

(Transliterated: I want that you eat.)

[iamcliff]

Originally Posted by Rusty

To expand on what wrholt said about your first question, when there is a change in subject, verbs of volition (like necesitar and querer) always adhere to the structure he demonstrated.

Originally Posted by wrholt

Oh, and the other question on "necesito pongas": it should be "necesito que pongas".

She most likely did say "necesito que pongas" but since she was speaking at full speed I just missed it.

Thanks for the explanation. I understand now.

Just out of curiosity:
Do the two phrases below mean the same thing?

"Necesito que pongas para atrás el carro."
"Te necesito poner para atrás el carro."

Gracias por la ayuda.

Originally Posted by Rusty

But not in parts of Spain.

A causa del ceceo, ¿verdad?

[Julvenzor]

Originally Posted by iamcliff

A causa del ceceo, ¿verdad?

No, pensar eso es una malconcepción entre hispanoamericanos. En la mayoría de España existe distinción: el sonido de la "c" se diferencia del de la "s".

En Suramérica sucede el fenómeno denominado seseo: igualar el sonido de la "c" al de la "s". "Caza" pronunciado como "casa".

Sólo en determinadas zonas de España ocurre en el ceceo: igualar el sonido de la "s" al de la "c". "Casa pronunciado como "caza".

Un saludo cordial.

[wrholt]

Originally Posted by wrholt

"va a hacer" and "va a ser" are pronounced the same way, as 2 syllables "va-ser".)

Originally Posted by Rusty

But not in parts of Spain.

Right! Sigh. And I had just been working on expanding the article on Pronunciation in the Grammar wiki, including comments about distinción.

[Julvenzor]

Originally Posted by wrholt

Right! Sigh. And I had just been working on expanding the article on Pronunciation in the Grammar wiki, including comments about distinción.

Very well done! I wish everybody was like you.

[Premium]

Is this accurate?

[Julvenzor]

Yes, Premium. In the past, "seseant" speakers are the majority of Andalucia region, it occurred while the New World conquest was just starting.

A pleasure.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by iamcliff

Just out of curiosity:
Do the two phrases below mean the same thing?

"Necesito que pongas para atrás el carro."
"Te necesito poner para atrás el carro."

No, they don't mean the same thing.
When you want someone else to do something, you must use the structure mentioned above.
clause_containing_a_verb_of_volition + que + subjunctive_clause


In the second sentence you wrote, 'te' is an indirect object pronoun. It is not a direct object pronoun.
Leave it off and you've got "I need to ___." Add it and you've got "I need to ___ (for) you."

A él le necesito comprar un sombrero. = I need to buy him a hat. (I need to buy a hat for him.)

Here's an equivalent sentence.
Necesito comprarle un sombrero (a él). = I need to buy him a hat. (I need to buy a hat for him.)


Here is a sentence using a verb of volition.
Necesito que él compre un sombrero. = I need him to buy a hat.
(literally: I need that he buy a hat.)
('Buy' is the English third-person present subjunctive form of the infinitive 'buy', but you'll seldom hear it used because the subjunctive mood is all but dead in English. In Spanish, using the subjunctive clause after a verb of volition is the proper way to ask someone else to do something.)

Here is a verb of volition structure that also sports an indirect object pronoun in the subjunctive clause.
Quiero que él te compre un sombrero. = I want him to buy a hat for you. (literally: I want that he for you buy a hat.)

[Glen]

Originally Posted by wrholt

(At normal conversational speeds, when 2 or more instances of the same vowel occur in series, they are pronounced as if there is only one instance: "va a hacer" and "va a ser" are pronounced the same way, as 2 syllables "va-ser".)

Good advice, and this very point [known as "elision," or something like that] was a real stumbling-block for me, having first learned from books.
But we do the same thing in English, don't we?

[JPablo]

Yes, you do.
Ain’t that true?

[wrholt]

Originally Posted by Glen

Good advice, and this very point [known as "elision," or something like that] was a real stumbling-block for me, having first learned from books.
But we do the same thing in English, don't we?

Yes, we do; our contractions are one of the examples of that process in English.