Hortera

[poli]

I was able to find various meanings for this word. The adjective form of the word is the one that I have a question about.
RAE says vulgar and in bad taste. The noun form hortera means wooden bowl. Because a wooden bowl is something that is porous and of little use, I think there is an additional nuance to the adjective.

Does the adjective hortera/o mean cursi or is there an additional meaning?

[Alfonso]

Hortera y cursi significan dos cosas distintas. Son dos palabras idiosincrásicas de la cultura española, así que tienen difícil traducción.

Hortera es algo o alguien presuntuoso y con mal gusto. ¿Qué es el mal gusto? Pregunten a un experto en estilo, a un diseñador, a un modisto, a un peluquero, a un bibliotecario, a un fan de Madonna y no se pondrán de acuerdo. Del mismo modo, no hay acuerdo sobre el significado de la palabra hortera. Se utiliza, en ocasiones, para descalificar a quienes no comparten nuestros gustos. Por ejemplo. ¿Las Vegas es una ciudad hortera? Yo diría que sí. Pero seguro que hay quien piensa que no.

Cursi es algo o alguien suavecito, bonito, delicado, poquita cosa. ¿James Blunt es cursi? Yo creo que sí, pero seguro que hay quien piensa que no. ¿Una tarta de fresa llena de guindas y figuritas de merengue es cursi? Sí, es cursi y empalagosa, pero esto es sólo un juicio personal.

[Rusty]

According to everything I could find on the subject, hortera (never hortero) is a femenine noun meaning a wooden bowl (as you said).

As an adjective, always in the femenine, it can be used to describe a flashy, trendy, or over-the-top person. And it can be used to say a person has no taste.

Cursi is not a synonym of hortera. One source says the only thing they have in common is that there isn't a masculine form for both words.

As an adjective, hortera can also mean:
showy, flashy, something obviously meant to attract attention
tacky, tasteless, neglected and in need of repair
cheap, vulgar(crude), worthy of no respect
crude, lacking in sophistication
gaudy, garish, tawdry, kitsch, naff

My reference says the word is only used in Spain. Elsewhere, use vulgar or ordinario.

[Tomisimo]

Another similar word (in its Mexican usage) to mean cheap, tacky, lacking in sophistication is corriente.

[poli]

Just as a means of clarification:
Would I be correct in saying that something cursi is fine, but perhaps overly fine--somewhat precious?

Hortera is garish, mawkish, over the top.

Thanks both Rusty and Alfonso. I had the wrong impression of the meaning of the word cursi. Sometimes dictionaries are misleading.

[Tomisimo]

As I understand it, cursi means pretentious, stuck up, showy, flashy.

[Jane]

Originally Posted by poli

Just as a means of clarification:
Would I be correct in saying that something cursi is fine, but perhaps overly fine--somewhat precious?

I don´t think so, Poli.
At least, not according to DRAE: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?LEMA=cursi.
And, here in Spain, it most certainly doesn´t mean precious.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Jane

I don´t think so, Poli.
At least, not according to DRAE: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?LEMA=cursi.
And, here in Spain, it most certainly doesn´t mean precious.

Jane, I meant precious in a negative way. Example: Don't you think this is a bit too precious
Do you think this may be considered cursi?.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:F..._The_Swing.jpg
Do you think this is hortera http://www.velvetpaintings.com/galle...alleries.shtml

[Alfonso]

Mmm... I'm really skeptical about you could find a good translation of any of both words into English.
As you said, hortera is only used in Spain. So, it's very Spanish. Not only de word, but also the meaning. Does any of you use the concept idiosincratyc word? To me, this is the point. What you call something which doesn't exist anywhere but in a single culture? If you have to translate it, you don't have a reality to name at the target culture. This is what makes this two concepts so idiosincratyc, that's to say, so untranslatable.

Regarding cursi, there's a really interesting essay about the subject, Lo cursi written by Ortega in the 20's. So its meaning might also be hard to find...

[poli]

Your example of Las Vegas as being hortera for some people explains it to me. In English, we call it crass, vulgar, in bad taste. Of course some people may see Vegas as the height of elegance

Cursi, however may truly be an idiosyncratic word. Different dictionaries
show different meanings. But I think it means a bit too artful and perfect-- a bit too overly refined like a Fragonard painting(and I like Fragonard even if his works are overly idyllic).

Do you think the very negative word insipido approaches the less negative word cursi?

[Jane]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Hortera y cursi significan dos cosas distintas. Son dos palabras idiosincrásicas de la cultura española, así que tienen difícil traducción.

Hortera es algo o alguien presuntuoso y con mal gusto. ¿Qué es el mal gusto? Pregunten a un experto en estilo, a un diseñador, a un modisto, a un peluquero, a un bibliotecario, a un fan de Madonna y no se pondrán de acuerdo. Del mismo modo, no hay acuerdo sobre el significado de la palabra hortera. Se utiliza, en ocasiones, para descalificar a quienes no comparten nuestros gustos. Por ejemplo. ¿Las Vegas es una ciudad hortera? Yo diría que sí. Pero seguro que hay quien piensa que no.

Cursi es algo o alguien suavecito, bonito, delicado, poquita cosa. ¿James Blunt es cursi? Yo creo que sí, pero seguro que hay quien piensa que no. ¿Una tarta de fresa llena de guindas y figuritas de merengue es cursi? Sí, es cursi y empalagosa, pero esto es sólo un juicio personal.

Poli, like Afonso said, there is no exact word for cursi/hotera in English. It´s almost completely dependent on individual tastes and interpretations; like one man´s food being another´s poison.
Alfonso gave a good example with Las Vegas (which BTW, I completely agree with him), though there are millions of people who will disagree.
Your example with the Fragonard painting also fits.

The word cursi has more or less the same complications with interpretation as posh/pija.

[Elaina]

CURSI

In his book Cassell's Colloquial Spanish, A. Bryson Gerrard explains his British take on the word:

"A colloquial but widely used adjective meaning something like 'socially pretentious'; it describes people who give themselves the airs of a higher social class, non-U pretending to be U. When applied to things, e.g. furniture of clothes, it contains the idea of noveau-riche. High-class houses in the best Spanish tradition are furnished with an aristocratic simplicity and restraint, and the gaudy, ornate Empire-style furniture which you sometimes find in city apartments would be described as cursi. I once heard a Spaniard say of a friend's tie ¡Qué corbata más cursi! He was being facetious but I wondered what an Anglo-Saxon might have said ... 'What a fancy tie!' ... 'What a pansy tie!' ... perhaps 'What a ghastly tie! since it was not a compliment. Affectation, pretentiousness, excessive ornamentation are all involved."

HORTERA

= Macarra.....(persona) vulgar y de mal gusto

Parecen muy similar pero veo las diferiencias......

Elaina

Can you have bad taste and not be vulgar and vice versa?

[poli]

Originally Posted by Elaina

CURSI

In his book Cassell's Colloquial Spanish, A. Bryson Gerrard explains his British take on the word:

"A colloquial but widely used adjective meaning something like 'socially pretentious'; it describes people who give themselves the airs of a higher social class, non-U pretending to be U. When applied to things, e.g. furniture of clothes, it contains the idea of noveau-riche. High-class houses in the best Spanish tradition are furnished with an aristocratic simplicity and restraint, and the gaudy, ornate Empire-style furniture which you sometimes find in city apartments would be described as cursi. I once heard a Spaniard say of a friend's tie ¡Qué corbata más cursi! He was being facetious but I wondered what an Anglo-Saxon might have said ... 'What a fancy tie!' ... 'What a pansy tie!' ... perhaps 'What a ghastly tie! since it was not a compliment. Affectation, pretentiousness, excessive ornamentation are all involved."

HORTERA

= Macarra.....(persona) vulgar y de mal gusto

Parecen muy similar pero veo las diferiencias......

Elaina

Can you have bad taste and not be vulgar and vice versa?

----------------------------------------------------
Yes you can have bad taste and not be vulgar, and that's the worst of all, because it's dull. At least with vulgarity, there's some spice.

[Jane]

Originally Posted by poli

-----
Yes you can have bad taste and not be vulgar, and that's the worst of all, because it's dull. At least with vulgarity, there's some spice.

LOL!!
That´s quite some thought.
I agree that you can have bad taste and not be vulgar and that it´ll be embarassingly boring.

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by Elaina

CURSI

In his book Cassell's Colloquial Spanish, A. Bryson Gerrard explains his British take on the word:

"A colloquial but widely used adjective meaning something like 'socially pretentious'; it describes people who give themselves the airs of a higher social class, non-U pretending to be U. When applied to things, e.g. furniture of clothes, it contains the idea of noveau-riche. High-class houses in the best Spanish tradition are furnished with an aristocratic simplicity and restraint, and the gaudy, ornate Empire-style furniture which you sometimes find in city apartments would be described as cursi. I once heard a Spaniard say of a friend's tie ¡Qué corbata más cursi! He was being facetious but I wondered what an Anglo-Saxon might have said ... 'What a fancy tie!' ... 'What a pansy tie!' ... perhaps 'What a ghastly tie! since it was not a compliment. Affectation, pretentiousness, excessive ornamentation are all involved."

Wrong path to define cursi. It should be an anglosaxon obssesion that of the social class, as la cursilería doesn't have anything to do with classes. Yes, I think this is one of the most common cultural misunderstandings between anglos and Spaniards. I will say it very clear not to be misunderstood: What the hell has cursi to do with social classes or social pretentiouness? Nothing at all.

[Elaina]

hmmmmmm

Well, I guess we are all entitled to our own opinion.....

Elaina

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Wrong path to define cursi. It should be an anglosaxon obssesion that of the social class, as la cursilería doesn't have anything to do with classes. Yes, I think this is one of the most common cultural misunderstandings between anglos and Spaniards. I will say it very clear not to be misunderstood: What the hell has cursi to do with social classes or social pretentiouness? Nothing at all.

I assume it has something to do with a bit of excess. Would a well groomed French poodle be an example of cursilería?

[Elaina]

It depends.......

Is it an Anglo poodle or a Spanish poodle?

Elaina

[poli]

Originally Posted by Elaina

It depends.......

Is it an Anglo poodle or a Spanish poodle?

Elaina

I wrote French poodle, but come to think of it a fastidious little Spanish
poodle sounds more fitting...certainly not an Anglo one, because we are
no capable of understanding such a term

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by poli

I wrote French poodle, but come to think of it a fastidious little Spanish
poodle sounds more fitting...certainly not an Anglo one, because we are
no capable of understanding such a term

Which term are you not capable to understand?

Maybe you will not be able to translate every term... But sure you are capable of understanding any term, if you try it.