Mismo

[satchrocks]

Does "mismo" take on the gender of the subject of the sentence, or does it take the subject of the noun that the subject is "the same as"?

How exactly are sentences constructed with mismo?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by satchrocks

Does "mismo" take on the gender of the subject of the sentence, or does it take the subject of the noun that the subject is "the same as"?

How exactly are sentences constructed with mismo?

Not exactly sure of what you are talking about. However, taking in consideration the following:

El árbol es el mismo. - The tree is the same one.

Él mismo lo dijo _ He, himself, said it.

Es la misma cubierta que aquella. - It is the same cover as that one.

Esa es la misma chaqueta que usó el año pasado. - That is the same jacket that used/wore last year.

Hopefully I answered to your satisfaction.

[bobjenkins]

Originally Posted by chileno

Not exactly sure of what you are talking about. However, taking in consideration the following:

El árbol es el mismo. - The tree is the same one.

Él mismo lo dijo _ He, himself, said it.

Es la misma cubierta que aquella. - It is the same cover as that one.

Esa es la misma chaqueta que usó el año pasado. - That is the same jacket that used/wore last year.

Hopefully I answered to your satisfaction.

¡buenísima información!

¿La puedo usar como eso?

A mí mismo me gustaría ganar la loteria

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by bobjenkins

¡buenísima información!

¿La puedo usar como eso?

A mí mismo me gustaría ganar la loteria

Suena un poco redundante, pero es correcto.

[brute]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Suena un poco redundante, pero es correcto.

I think Satchrocks is also asking if you can use mismo to describe two identical objects or two people who are the same?

For instance, can you say

"estos gameles son los mismos - identicos - o iguales" ?

"Un kilogramo y 1000 gramos son el mismo (lo mismos)"

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

For identical twins you'd say:

Los gemelos son idénticos.


For people who look alike:

Mi mamá y yo nos parecemos.
My mother and I look alike.


I don't know if I understand well "people who are the same", but I think it could be something like:

Juan M. y J. Martínez son la misma persona.
Juan M. and J. Martínez are the same person.

Roberto y yo pertenecemos a la misma familia: somos primos.
Roberto and I belong to the same family: we're cousins.


As for the weight equivalence example:

Un kilo y mil gramos son lo mismo.

[EmpanadaRica]

Ok.. when I just started learning Spanish I loved the word 'mismo' and 'misma'. But now I am not so sure..

Sometimes I get confused when I have to use 'mismo' (/igual), 'propio' / 'propia' or even for example ' por mi cuenta'.

' I have done it myself' for example: ' Lo he hecho yo mismo'? or ' ' yo lo he hecho por mi cuenta'

' Es el mismo' - but 'y su uso propio' - not ' y su uso mismo' - right, or wrong?

' Me da igual' but not ' me da mismo' ? Although in most cases I suppose ' igual' and ' mismo' can be used interchangeably..?

So can someone give me a clear rule of thumb when to use
'mismo'
'propio'
'por me cuenta'

when referring to 'self' , 'by him/him/herself ' etc?
For example if I want to emphasize that I have done something ' all by myself' - would I say ' por me cuenta'?

Or if I want to emphasize that I was 'all by myself ' would I be using any of these words or should I use ' completamente sola' for example?

He came all by himself (meaning not alone but of his own initiative, it was all his idea), would I translate that as ' Veni completamente/todo por su cuenta' or would I need to put it in another way

Somehow this seems like a fairly easy distinction between these words, yet when I am trying to use them it seems I don't use them appropriately more often than not.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica

Ok.. when I just started learning Spanish I loved the word 'mismo' and 'misma'. But now I am not so sure..

Sometimes I get confused when I have to use 'mismo' (/igual), 'propio' / 'propia' or even for example ' por mi cuenta'.

' I have done it myself' for example: ' Lo he hecho yo mismo'? or ' ' yo lo he hecho por mi cuenta' Both are right. In one case you emphasize you did it yourself and in the other you say you did it on your own initiative.

' Es el mismo' - but 'y su uso propio' - not ' y su uso mismo' - right, or wrong? I'm not sure I understand your question here... "Es el mismo" means it's the same... (it needs either something said before or a complement: "the same jacket", "the same place"...)
"Su uso propio" and "su uso mismo" also need some context or complement. "La biblioteca es para uso propio de los estudiantes" (it's the students who will use it).
But "su uso mismo" is not related to "su uso propio": "Las drogas dañan la salud. Su uso mismo está prohibido". (The use of drugs itself is forbidden).

' Me da igual' but not ' me da lo mismo' ? Although in most cases I suppose ' igual' and ' mismo' can be used interchangeably..?

"Me da igual" and "me da lo mismo" can be used interchangeably and both mean "I don't care".

So can someone give me a clear rule of thumb when to use
'mismo'
'propio'
'por me cuenta'

when referring to 'self' , 'by him/him/herself ' etc?
For example if I want to emphasize that I have done something ' all by myself' - would I say ' por me cuenta'?

I don't think I can give any rules. The continuous use of the words and the contexts will show you how to use them. Try to write many sentences with different examples and you'll start seeing the nuances between them.

Or if I want to emphasize that I was 'all by myself ' would I be using any of these words or should I use ' completamente sola' for example?

"All by myself" can be said "yo sola", "completamente sola", "sin ayuda", "por mi cuenta"... it depends on the context and your intention.

He came all by himself (meaning not alone but of his own initiative, it was all his idea), would I translate that as ' Veni vino completamente/enteramente/todo por su cuenta' or would I need to put it in another way

Somehow this seems like a fairly easy distinction between these words, yet when I am trying to use them it seems I don't use them appropriately more often than not.

Comments and suggestions above.

[EmpanadaRica]

Hola Angelica!!
¡¡¡Muchas gracias por toda tu ayuda y las explicaciones!!!
De hecho eres una angelita

Es el mismo' - but 'y su uso propio' - not ' y su uso mismo' - right, or wrong? I'm not sure I understand your question here... "Es el mismo" means it's the same... (it needs either something said before or a complement: "the same jacket", "the same place"...)
"Su uso propio" and "su uso mismo" also need some context or complement. "La biblioteca es para uso propio de los estudiantes" (it's the students who will use it).
But "su uso mismo" is not related to "su uso propio": "Las drogas dañan la salud. Su uso mismo está prohibido". (The use of drugs itself is forbidden).

Sorry yes, I should have complemented the sentence, sorry! I did intend it exactly how you interpreted it.

I hadn' t come across ' su uso mismo' yet, this is very good, thank you for explaining. I will try to make a structure for myself with Dutch and/ or English equivalents so this will hopefully give me more insight into when to use which.

The way I read it at the moment (but this may vary depending on context I am aware of this!) would be:
'su uso propio' would be more or less translated as 'it is intended/ meant for' or ' aimed at' or (in a wide sense) 'belonging to, pertaining to'?
Whereas ' su uso mismo' would be more like 'in and of itself' ' it's mere use' for example?

' Me da igual' but not ' me da lo mismo' ? Although in most cases I suppose ' igual' and ' mismo' can be used interchangeably..?

"Me da igual" and "me da lo mismo" can be used interchangeably and both mean "I don't care".

Ok that' s very good to know, thanx!! I hadn't come across 'me da lo mismo' yet, and I was wondering why not. This makes a lot more sense!

I don't think I can give any rules. The continuous use of the words and the contexts will show you how to use them. Try to write many sentences with different examples and you'll start seeing the nuances between them.

Ok fair enough (you have to admit, it was worth a shot )

It' s actually very good advice, I think I will do exactly that!! Just take a topic like this and try to make some sentences to see if I am grasping the differences correctly ¡¡Gracias!! ¡¡ Me has ayudado muchisimo!!

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by satchrocks

Does "mismo" take on the gender of the subject of the sentence, or does it take the subject of the noun that the subject is "the same as"?

How exactly are sentences constructed with mismo?

Mismo is an adjective, and as such must agree in gender and number with the noun it modifies:

el mismo coche
la misma ruta
los mismos hombres
las mismas palabras

As for the meaning of mismo, be careful. Mismo means it is physically and literally the same object. If you have something that is the same as something else, but you're not talking about the same literal object, then use igual.

- Look at my new dictionary!
- I have the same one.

- ¡Mira mi nuevo diccionario!
- Yo tengo uno igual.

[EmpanadaRica]

¡Gracias Tomisimo!
That' s very good to know, this would be typically one of those occasions where I am mixing up these words due to the subtle differences.

Ok as said before I will try to make a few brief sentences with these different words (especially propio) to see if I am any closer to grasp the differences. As always I would welcome any corrections and comments/ help!

Mismo:
1. Ya he visto yo mismo como él ha intentado seducirla!
(I have already seen for myself (with my very own eyes?) how he tried to seduce her.) (Sentido: self/myself)

2. Mi hermana e yo son nos paracemos mucho - ¡ es decir que nuestras caras (rostros???) son parecidas pero no las mismas!
(My sister and I look a lot alike - meaning that our faces are a lot alike but not the same!) (Sentido: alike, the same)

Or would you be more inliclined to use ' iguales' in this case? Is ther a difference in the use of 'la cara' and 'el rostro' ? I heard 'rostro' when referring to the serene face of a buddha statue so I am not sure if this is also used for humans?

3. ¡Lo he hecho yo mismo, porque quise estar segura (quise asegurarme?) que nada hubía (hubo??) sido olvidado!
(I have done it myself because I wanted to be sure that nothing has been forgotten).


Por mi cuenta:
4. Vine a la fiesta por mi cuenta aunque no había estado invitado .
(I came to the party on my own (initiative) although I had not been invited.)


Sóla:
5. Vine a la fiesta sóla porque ninguno de mis amigos tuvo tiempo para acompañarme.
(I came to the party (all) by myself/ alone because none of my friends had time to come along with me/ accompany me.)
Ps: I am assuming in this case it is 'ninguno' and not 'ningún'?

Propio/propia:
6.Vine a la fiesta en vestido propio para ver porque se la considera tan especial por algunos.
(I came to the party in appropriate clothes/atire to see why it is considered so special by some).

7. ¡No, mi propia casa no es paracida a la suya! Vivo en un piso modesto ya que por el contrario ella vive en un verdadero palacio!
(No, my (own) house is not like hers! I live in a modest flat whereas she on the other hand lives in a real palace!)

8. Mi propio deseo sería de viajar (estar de vacaciones?) en America del Sur, pero a mi novio no le gusta la cultura antigua ni el clima húmedo tropical.
(My own wish would be to go on holiday to South America, but my boyfriend does not like the ancient culture nor the humid tropical climate.)

9. Esta baila muy complicada pertenece a este región propia de Indonesia.
(This very complicated dance belongs to this characteristic/specific region of Indonesia).

--> Having some doubts about this one. Thinking it might be more usual or logical to use 'caraterística' or 'específica' in this case, to avoid confusion maybe?
I understand 'propio' has this meaning but I have some trouble putting it into a good, natural sentence.
Also I am not sure if 'partenecer' is the right word, as it means belonging as in posession I think, and I mean it in the sense of 'is part of this region'?

10. Estes son los libros propios de la biblioteca de la universidad.
(These are the books belonging to the library of the university).


Ok I'll leave it at this for now because it's better to perhaps try some more after feedback I think.
I have a sneaky suspicion that I have made 'unnatural' sentences with 'propio' eventhough I think I understand the meaning of it in general. If this is the case maybe someone can give me some pointers or ideas on how to improve it? I would really appreciate it!

¡¡Gracias!!

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica

¡Gracias Tomisimo!
That' s very good to know, this would be typically one of those occasions where I am mixing up these words due to the subtle differences.

Ok as said before I will try to make a few brief sentences with these different words (especially propio) to see if I am any closer to grasp the differences. As always I would welcome any corrections and comments/ help!

Mismo:
1. Ya he visto yo mismo como él ha intentado seducirla!
(I have already seen for myself (with my very own eyes?) how he tried to seduce her.) (Sentido: self/myself)

2. Mi hermana e yo son nos paracemos mucho - ¡ es decir que nuestras caras (rostros???) son parecidas pero no las mismas!
(My sister and I look a lot alike - meaning that our faces are a lot alike but not the same!) (Sentido: alike, the same)

Or would you be more inliclined to use ' iguales' in this case? Is ther a difference in the use of 'la cara' and 'el rostro' ? I heard 'rostro' when referring to the serene face of a buddha statue so I am not sure if this is also used for humans?

Mi hermana y yo nos parecemos mucho, es decir, que nuestras caras son parecidas, pero no es la misma.
El rostro se usa, pero es más habitual usar cara.
Vuestras caras son parecidas, pero no iguales. Serían iguales si fuerais gemelas idénticas, pero no sería la misma cara.

Para el mismo / la misma:

Juan y yo usamos la misma bicicleta para ir a trabajar: yo la uso por la mañana y él por la tarde.
Pedro y yo tenemos los mismos pensamientos cuando pasamos por delante de una pastelería: entrar y comérnoslo todo.


3. ¡Lo he hecho yo mismo, porque quise estar segura (quise asegurarme?) que nada hubía (hubo??) sido olvidado!
(I have done it myself because I wanted to be sure that nothing has been forgotten).

Lo he hecho yo misma, porque quiero estar segura de que no se ha olvidado nada (cuidado con los tiempos verbales)



Por mi cuenta:
4. Vine a la fiesta por mi cuenta aunque no había estado invitado me habían invitado
(I came to the party on my own (initiative) although I had not been invited.)



Sola:
5. Vine a la fiesta sola porque ninguno de mis amigos tenía tiempo para acompañarme.
(I came to the party (all) by myself/ alone because none of my friends had time to come along with me/ accompany me.)
Ps: I am assuming in this case it is 'ninguno' and not 'ningún'?

Podrías decir: ningún amigo mío tenía tiempo de acompañarme


Propio/propia:
6.Vine a la fiesta en vestido propio para ver porque se la considera tan especial por algunos.
(I came to the party in appropriate clothes/atire to see why it is considered so special by some).

Vine a la fiesta con el vestido apropiado para ver por qué algunos lo consideran tan especial (¿qué cosa, el vestido?). No es lo mismo propio que apropiado:

Vine a la fiesta con mi propio coche porque me apetecía conducir.


7. ¡No, mi propia casa no es paracida a la suya! Vivo en un piso modesto ya que por el contrario ella vive en un verdadero palacio!
(No, my (own) house is not like hers! I live in a modest flat whereas she on the other hand lives in a real palace!)


Aquí yo no usaría propia, simplemente diría: No, mi casa no es parecida a la suya. Vivo en un piso modesto, mientras que ella vive en un verdadero palacio.

Mejor en otros contextos:

Por fin ya tengo mi propia casa.



8. Mi propio deseo sería de viajar (estar de vacaciones?) en America del Sur, pero a mi novio no le gusta la cultura antigua ni el clima húmedo tropical.
(My own wish would be to go on holiday to South America, but my boyfriend does not like the ancient culture nor the humid tropical climate.)

Tampoco usaría aquí propio, más bien “auténtico”:

Mi auténtico deseo sería el de viajar a América del Sur, pero a mi novio no le gusta la cultura antigua ni el húmedo clima tropical.

En otro contexto:

Tengo mis propios deseos, pero no te los voy a decir.


9. Esta baila muy complicada pertenece a este región propia de Indonesia.
(This very complicated dance belongs to this characteristic/specific region of Indonesia).

--> Having some doubts about this one. Thinking it might be more usual or logical to use 'caraterística' or 'específica' in this case, to avoid confusion maybe?
I understand 'propio' has this meaning but I have some trouble putting it into a good, natural sentence.
Also I am not sure if 'partenecer' is the right word, as it means belonging as in posession I think, and I mean it in the sense of 'is part of this region'?

Tampoco propio aquí

Este baile es muy complicado, pertenece a esta región específica de Indonesia.


10. Estes son los libros propios de la biblioteca de la universidad.
(These are the books belonging to the library of the university).

No exactamente:

Estos libros son propiedad de la biblioteca de la universidad



Ok I'll leave it at this for now because it's better to perhaps try some more after feedback I think.
I have a sneaky suspicion that I have made 'unnatural' sentences with 'propio' eventhough I think I understand the meaning of it in general. If this is the case maybe someone can give me some pointers or ideas on how to improve it? I would really appreciate it!

¡¡Gracias!!

Take a look at this:

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltCons...=3&LEMA=propio

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Take a look at this:

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltCons...=3&LEMA=propio

¡¡Muchisimas gracias irmamar!!

¡¡¡¡Eres tan amable y siempre me ayudas muchisimo!!!! Dank je!!

It seems I have a poor understanding of 'propio' for now..
I think I am trying too hard to make sentences with it in all the different meanings, and then end up with unnatural use of it.

This site is very helpful though, thanx a lot!!! Any time when I am in doubt I will just look at it and check the list..

Yes I know my verbs need yet a lot of work. It will be a long time yet before I am using them well I think even if I do try to practise them. I guess I feel a little daunted by them sometimes, and about how to use them properly so I tend to try the safe way of saying things. This time I wanted to try to be a bit more bold but obviously not with the best result.
Anyway it' s the only way to learn..

Vine a la fiesta con el vestido apropiado para ver por qué algunos lo consideran tan especial (¿qué cosa, el vestido?).
-->> I meant the party - I went to the party to see what some thought was so special about it.


Thank you for your examples and clarifications also I think I will just keep using the word 'propio' only in those cases for now just to avoid confusion..

¡Muchas gracias de nuevo por tu esfuerzo y tu ayuda! Lo aprecio mucho

[irmamar]

Entonces: vine a la fiesta [...] la consideran tan especial

Wasn't it just "bedankt" instead of "danke je"? (I learnt some words and sentences, but I've almost forgotten everything)

Could you tell me "¿Nos vamos?" in Dutch, please? Thanks.

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Entonces: vine a la fiesta [...] la consideran tan especial

¡Está bien! ¡Gracias!

Wasn't it just "bedankt" instead of "danke je"? (I learnt some words and sentences, but I've almost forgotten everything)

You can say either ' bedankt' and ' dank je' both mean 'gracias' in an informal way. If you want to say it in the formal way, you have to say 'dank u' or ' dank u wel'

Could you tell me "¿Nos vamos?" in Dutch, please? Thanks.

Nos vamos (we' re going) = ' we gaan'

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica

¡Está bien! ¡Gracias!


You can say either ' bedankt' and ' dank je' both mean 'gracias' in an informal way. If you want to say it in the formal way, you have to say 'dank u' or ' dank u wel'



Nos vamos (we' re going) = ' we gaan'

No, it was a very long sentence, I'm not able to write because I knew it spoken, it was a question, something like "¿Quieres que nos vayamos?" (something like gaan with the horrible "j" was there )

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by irmamar

No, it was a very long sentence, I'm not able to write because I knew it spoken, it was a question, something like "¿Quieres que nos vayamos?" (something like gaan with the horrible "j" was there )

Nos vamos, if you mean , we' re going = we gaan.
Vamos? = 'Zullen we gaan'? or ' Gaan we?'
"¿Quieres que nos vayamos?" = 'Wil je dat we gaan?' or 'Wil je graag gaan?' or 'Heb je liever dat we gaan?' or ' Heb je zin om te gaan?'

The last two are translated a little more liberally.

[irmamar]

Creo que era la tercera (heb je liever...), gracias

[EmpanadaRica]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Creo que era la tercera (heb je liever...), gracias

Es como decir 'prefieres que nos vayamos?'

¡De nada!

[Rusty]

Irse (from which we get nos vamos or nos vayamos) means to leave.