The subjunctive

[gatitoverde]

This is something I read on Yahoo the other day. I believe it was from an EFE article:

- El partido fue suspendido luego de que una mujer policía se disparara fuera del estadio.

Could someone explain to me why the imperfect subjunctive is used?

[Rusty]

The phrase luego de que requires the subjunctive, and it's in the imperfect mood because the action in the main clause took place in the past.

[Alfonso]

Es exacto lo que dice Rusty. El uso del subjuntivo es una exigencia de la cláusula principal. No tiene sentido preguntarse por qué, pues no existe, en este caso, una alternativa en indicativo con distinto significado.
El enfoque para comprender el subjuntivo es estructuralista. La estructura lo exige. Muchas gramáticas lo explican como si el subjuntivo tuviera un significado en sí mismo, como si tuviera que ver con la actitud del hablante, o con la irrealidad del suceso, etc. Pero esto es falso. Frases como ésta lo demuestran.

Luego de que + subjuntivo.
Después de que + subjuntivo.

[Tomisimo]

Good question Gatito.

Use of the imperfect subjunctive as opposed to the the present subjunctive

If the verb in the main clause is in one of the past tenses or the conditional tense (specifically the imperfect indicative, preterit, pluperfect indicative, or conditional) then the imperfect subjunctive is used instead of the present subjunctive.

In this case the verb in the main clause is fue suspendido, requiring the imperfect subjunctive.

The above it true, provided that there is one of the elements that triggers the subjunctive in the sentence.

Conditions that trigger the subjunctive

Perhaps your question in this case is the fact that a gunshot was fired, and that being a concrete happening, why is the subjunctive needed?

The dichotomy between something concrete and something likely to happen is not the only reason the subjunctive is needed.

So what triggers the subjunctive in this case?

Most (all?) of the time-related conjunctions trigger the use of the subjunctive after them. For example: después (de) que, antes (de) que, luego (de) que, cuando, hasta que, mientras etc. You should use the subjunctive after all of these.

EDIT: When I started my post, no one had answered Gatito yet-- You guys sure are fast!

[gatitoverde]

Beautiful. Thank you again, Rusty, and everyone. And if anyone else feels like contributing, I could maybe use a list of similar phrases requiring the subjunctive . . .

Qué hermoso. Grácias de nuevo, Rusty, y a todos. Y si alguien se sienta dispuesto a ayudarme en agregar otros ejemplos de frases seguidas por el subjunctivo, no vacile, por favor . . .

[gatitoverde]

Exactly what I was thinking, David! I had to quickly go back and edit my post to say and everyone/a todos!

[Tomisimo]

Well, in addition to the time-related conjunctions I wrote above, here's a few more expressions off the top of my head that must be followed by the subjunctive.

• ojalá
• con tal que
• para que
• acaso
• quizá
• tal vez
• aunque (if the relevant action hasn't occurred yet)
• a fin de que
• a menos que
• por más que

[gatitoverde]

Mmmmmmmmmmmahh! <----kiss . . . Much love! Viel Dank!

[poli]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I use the subjunctive under the following
circumstance: when the predicate is conditional, the following verb in the sentence is subjunctive.
For example: Iría alli si vayas conmigo.

If this is correct, does the same rule apply with the future tense followed buy the present subjunctive?

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by gatitoverde

Mmmmmmmmmmmahh! <----kiss . . . Much love! Viel Dank!

¿No es vielen dank?

Originally Posted by poli

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I use the subjunctive under the following
circumstance: when the predicate is conditional, the following verb in the sentence is subjunctive.
For example: Iría alli si vayas conmigo.

If this is correct, does the same rule apply with the future tense followed buy the present subjunctive?

The conditional does trigger the imperfect subjunctive, but in your example it doesn't use the subjunctive, since si (if) is always followed by the indicative never followed by the present subjunctive (but can be followed by the imperfect subjunctive). In any case, some element that requires the subjunctive must be present so that you can use the subjunctive after the conditional. For example Yo iría para que tú fueras.

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by poli

Iría alli si vayas conmigo.

It's wrong. You should say: Iría si vinieras conmigo. Segunda condicional (hipotética).

[gatitoverde]

I stand corrected. Thanks David.

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by gatitoverde

It's an idiom, David, like saying Buenos Días or Thank you. Don't try and decline it to say with much thanks. That's just the way it's said, and they would add a preposition otherwise.

Ok, thanks. It's been a while since I've wrangled with German. Ich habe nicht Deutch studiert für viele Jarhe. ¿Está bien escrito eso?

[Marsopa]

I have heard lots of people follow si with the present subjunctive, although I also learned that this was not correct.

But it's said all the time!

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by Marsopa

I have heard lots of people follow si with the present subjunctive, although I also learned that this was not correct.

But it's said all the time!

De acuerdo, Marsopa. Dependiendo de dónde lo hayas escuchado puede considerarse vulgar o no. En Madrid, y en España en general, una construccion como si haya gente iremos a Segovia, es vulgar, en el sentido de inculta o errónea. Y es muy improbable escuchar algo así.

¿Dónde lo escuchas, Marsopa, y con qué connotación y registro?

Gracias por la info. Me parece muy interesante.

[Iris]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Es exacto lo que dice Rusty. El uso del subjuntivo es una exigencia de la cláusula principal. No tiene sentido preguntarse por qué, pues no existe, en este caso, una alternativa en indicativo con distinto significado.
El enfoque para comprender el subjuntivo es estructuralista. La estructura lo exige. Muchas gramáticas lo explican como si el subjuntivo tuviera un significado en sí mismo, como si tuviera que ver con la actitud del hablante, o con la irrealidad del suceso, etc. Pero esto es falso. Frases como ésta lo demuestran.

Luego de que + subjuntivo.
Después de que + subjuntivo.

How can one help being in love with this guy? He's so clever...

[gatitoverde]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Es exacto lo que dice Rusty. El uso del subjuntivo es una exigencia de la cláusula principal. No tiene sentido preguntarse por qué, pues no existe, en este caso, una alternativa en indicativo con distinto significado.
El enfoque para comprender el subjuntivo es estructuralista. La estructura lo exige. Muchas gramáticas lo explican como si el subjuntivo tuviera un significado en sí mismo, como si tuviera que ver con la actitud del hablante, o con la irrealidad del suceso, etc. Pero esto es falso. Frases como ésta lo demuestran.

Luego de que + subjuntivo.
Después de que + subjuntivo.

Eso es lo que pansaba yo. Gracias, Alfonso. Ahora me siento mejor respecto a mis malentendidos. Sólo hay que memorizar los gatillos de este modo fastidioso.

[Tomisimo]

Originally Posted by gatitoverde

Eso es lo que pensaba yo. Gracias, Alfonso. Ahora me siento mejor respecto a mis malentendidos. Sólo hay que memorizar los gatillos de este modo fastidioso.

No estoy seguro que se pueda usar gatillo/trigger de este modo. Algún hablante nativo que pueda opinar? Quizá sería mejor: Hay que memorizar estas frases que requieren/exigen/causan/desencadenan/provocan el subjuntivo.

[gatitoverde]

Oh, I have too much experience trying to port over English expressions into foreign languages to know that it's a losing proposition, David. But every once in a while, sh*t sticks to the wall. I was actually curious what the natives would say about it. If I'd really been that concerned with being correct, I would have thrown it in a search engine and seen if I got any results, which is a method I'm finding indispensable since I'm sitting in a hotel room all week waiting for my rent to expire and my bus to take me back to SLC and you guys are all at work so you can't help me al tiro and I'm making French flashcards anyway--in the first person so I don't take nine hours to compose a butchered sentence as evinced by your little avión thread--and I can't find a French forum approaching this quality, so blah! But actually, thank you. I trust your opinion on that one. I think I'll drink my foe-ty. <---El desfile de idiotas en mi cerebro. <--- Too cool for the parade.

[Tomisimo]

I was actually curious what the natives would say about it

Me too.