Social and societal

[irmamar]

I don't know if these words are synonyms or one of them is used in some occasions whereas the other is used in other occasions. Dictionary translates them as 'social' (in Spanish).

For instance, I have these two sentences:

Language is a social phenomenom.
Language relates the speakers to their societal environment.

Thanks.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Language is a social phenomenomn.
Language relates the speakers to their societal environment.

I've never heard the word societal. I can't see why you can't use social as the adjective in both cases. Why do people have to invent new ones?

[irmamar]

Sorry, m is next to n.

I don't know if they invent, 'societal' is in the dictionary.

Thanks, I'll use social, it's easier to pronounce.

[Awaken]

Social and Societal are different to me. Sadly, the dictionary is better at describing it. Societal is something that I feel is related to the society/group of people. Customs, activities, style of living, etc...

Social means lots of things, but in general I think of the most common uses today: social networks (Facebook, MySpace) and "being social" which is being out with people talking and hanging out. Hopefully that helps some.

"The new immigrants were changing slowly due to societal influences."

Societal
–adjective
noting or pertaining to large social groups, or to their activities, customs, etc.

social - 5 dictionary results
so·cial   
[soh-shuhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
pertaining to, devoted to, or characterized by friendly companionship or relations: a social club.
2.
seeking or enjoying the companionship of others; friendly; sociable; gregarious.
3.
of, pertaining to, connected with, or suited to polite or fashionable society: a social event.
4.
living or disposed to live in companionship with others or in a community, rather than in isolation: People are social beings.
5.
of or pertaining to human society, esp. as a body divided into classes according to status: social rank.
6.
involved in many social activities: We're so busy working, we have to be a little less social now.
7.
of or pertaining to the life, welfare, and relations of human beings in a community: social problems.
8.
noting or pertaining to activities designed to remedy or alleviate certain unfavorable conditions of life in a community, esp. among the poor.
9.
pertaining to or advocating socialism.
10.
Zoology . living habitually together in communities, as bees or ants. Compare solitary ( def. 8 ) .
11.
Botany . growing in patches or clumps.
12.
Rare . occurring or taking place between allies or confederates.
–noun
13.
a social gathering or party, esp. of or as given by an organized group: a church social.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Awaken

"The new immigrants were changing slowly due to societal influences."

I would use social here as well. Maybe it's another AmE/BrE thing.

[chileno]

Societal in this case I would take it as society or social depending on how the phrase is constructed.

[Tomisimo]

Without looking anything up, I'd say:

social = pertaining to relationships with others
societal = pertaining to the idea of society

In any case 'societal' would not be a very commonly used word.

[irmamar]

Wow, thanks for the inputs.

In my notes, I have the word "social" repeated many times, but not "societal", which only appears a few times:

Societal and linguistic patterns.
Societal and dialectal variation.
Societal and extralinguistic factors.

But I can read:

Social and non-linguistic factors.
Language is preserved because of social factors.

So I can't see a clear difference between these two words. But as the subject is sociolinguistics, I'm worried about there could be any difference between them. I'll have to ask in my teacher forums, I think.

The book is written in American English (although I "translated" some terms into British English when doing my summary, like -ize/-ise endings). Maybe this is an American English word? Now I've looked it up in Cambridge dictionary and it is not there.

Thanks anyway.

[Perikles]

BNC hits:

social - 41,641
societal - 208

The second word (which I had never heard before) appears in heavy sociological writings. Here are a few examples from BNC:

...Governing elites are under no real compulsion to submit to societal pressures in shaping state policy,

....a model which proceeds from an egocentric through a societal to a universal perspective

....The study thus is exploring both the personal and the wider societal issues of the new infertility services and high technology reproductive

...Why anti-cruelty is not enough We do well to remember that societal opposition to cruelty to animals, especially opposition that has the force of law,

(I'm not surprised I've never heard it, these are not the kinds of texts I would read. )

[poli]

Social tiene muchos significados. Uno de sus variados signifcados es societal.

[Awaken]

Originally Posted by Perikles

BNC hits:

social - 41,641
societal - 208

The second word (which I had never heard before) appears in heavy sociological writings. Here are a few examples from BNC:

...Governing elites are under no real compulsion to submit to societal pressures in shaping state policy,

So my made up sentence sounded official! Sweet!

"Societal" has a very academic use (history books, sociology books). It is extremely rare to hear it in normal conversation.

But based on some of the topics you have been posting irmamar, it may be a good word for your studies.

[irmamar]

Thanks for your interest. I wrote the question in the teachers/mates forum, but I have no answers yet. The subject is sociolinguistics, so I'm worried about the posibility that this word can be used in some context instead of "social". I'll wait until some teacher go into that forum.

[Awaken]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Thanks for your interest. I wrote the question in the teachers/mates forum, but I have no answers yet. don't have any answers yet The subject is sociolinguistics, so I'm worried about the posibility that this word can be used in some context instead of "social". I'll wait until some teacher goes into that forum.

Made a couple of corrections. The first correction is based on more conversational use, not really a rule.

If you can provide more context on the sentences you are writing/reading, I will be glad to help with social vs. societal.

[irmamar]

"Goes"

Thanks for your corrections.

For instance:

Sociolinguistics examines the societal and linguistic patterns that govern our behaviour as members of human society.
An English speaker from Edinburgh speaks the same language as someone from London; they live in the same country with the same cultural background. They can consider themselves native speakers of English, in spite of clear societal or dialectical variation.
For sociolinguistics, the issue is a bit more complex than that given the fact that societal and extra linguistic factors are taken into account.

However, I have the following sentence with "social" (for instance), which is very similar to the former:

This view of the native speaker has nothing to do with the conception of the native speaker in sociolinguistics, where social and non-linguistic factors are considered of key importance for communication.

So, sometimes I think they are synonyms.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

For sociolinguistics, the issue is a bit more complex than that given the fact that societal and extra linguistic factors are taken into account.

You are mixing distinct levels of language. a bit more is colloquial, and would never be written in this context. Better would be the issue is rather more complex...

[irmamar]

Isn't "rather" "bastante"? I want to say "un poco".

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Isn't "rather" "bastante"? I want to say "un poco".

Rather can mean bastante or un poco:

rather1adverb
..
B (fairly) bastante; (somewhat) algo, un poco; it's rather a long way queda bastante lejos; it's rather a o a rather good book el libro es bastante bueno or no está nada mal; she looks rather like Janet se parece algo or un poco a Janet; I rather suspect you're right yo diría que tienes razón; I rather think that … me da la impresión or tengo la sensación de que …; are you tired? — yes, I am, rather ¿estás cansado? — sí, bastante

[irmamar]

So, it must be "rather" difficult to distinguish between "un poco" and "bastante".

Thanks.

[poli]

Originally Posted by irmamar

"Goes"

Thanks for your corrections.

For instance:

Sociolinguistics examines the societal and linguistic patterns that govern our behaviour as members of human society.
An English speaker from Edinburgh speaks the same language as someone from London; they live in the same country with the same cultural background. They can consider themselves native speakers of English, in spite of clear societal or dialectical variation.
For sociolinguistics, the issue is a bit more complex than that given the fact that societal and extra linguistic factors are taken into account.

However, I have the following sentence with "social" (for instance), which is very similar to the former:

This view of the native speaker has nothing to do with the conception of the native speaker in sociolinguistics, where social and non-linguistic factors are considered of key importance for communication.

So, sometimes I think they are synonyms.

They are synonymns, but, as I wrote before, social has several. other meanings. Societal has just one meaning.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by irmamar

So, it must be "rather" difficult to distinguish between "un poco" and "bastante".

Thanks.

Yes, it can be a bit difficult.