Por Siempre y Para Siempre

[laepelba]

This is the title of a song that I have on a CD with all religious songs. The verse goes something like "Por siempre y para siempre yo te amaré".

For ever and for ever? If so, what is the significance in changing from "por" to "para". If not, what is the correct sense/translation?

Thanks!!

[hermit]

Both senses of "for" in translation to Spanish are in focus..."por cierto",
y "para siempre", perhaps?

[laepelba]

I'm sorry - I don't understand your meaning. I don't really know the two "senses" of "for" in Spanish. I just know that there are certain times to use one and certain times to use the other. What do you mean by your last sentence?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by hermit

Both senses of "for" in translation to Spanish are in focus..."por cierto",
y "para siempre", perhaps?

I guess the translation would be "Forever and ever"

Right?

[Rusty]

Here's what the DRAE says:

para siempre.
1. loc. adv. Por todo tiempo o por tiempo indefinido. Me voy para siempre

por siempre.

1. loc. adv. Perpetuamente o por tiempo sin fin. Por siempre sea alabado y bendito

Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

There must be a subtle difference, or they wouldn't have two meanings. It looks like the former focuses on a state, while the latter focuses on the duration of an action. It's hard to see the difference, but por is used with the duration (the progress of time) in mind.

[laepelba]

Thanks, all of you! It's starting to make a little sense to me!

[hermit]

There you go, thanks Rusty

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Here's what the DRAE says:

para siempre.
1. loc. adv. Por todo tiempo o por tiempo indefinido. Me voy para siempre

por siempre.

1. loc. adv. Perpetuamente o por tiempo sin fin. Por siempre sea alabado y bendito

Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados

There must be a subtle difference, or they wouldn't have two meanings. It looks like the former focuses on a state, while the latter focuses on the duration of an action. It's hard to see the difference, but por is used with the duration (the progress of time) in mind.

Rusty's suggestions are correct.

Por and para siempre always will be correct.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by Rusty

There must be a subtle difference, or they wouldn't have two meanings.

I suppose so, but these dictionaries are usually compiled by a large team. Is it not possible that these two entries were made by 2 people not talking to each other, and the two expressions are indistiguishable? I can't see any difference.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I suppose so, but these dictionaries are usually compiled by a large team. Is it not possible that these two entries were made by 2 people not talking to each other, and the two expressions are indistiguishable? I can't see any difference.

Yeah, but the whole point is that there must be a subtle difference or the title/verse of the song wouldn't be así....

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Yeah, but the whole point is that there must be a subtle difference or the title/verse of the song wouldn't be así....

You are assuming that those who write lyrics for songs are intent on being profound or clever rather than just stringing words together which sound lyrical. Analysing song lyrics is a lost cause most of the time, trying to find meaning when there isn't any. Anyway, tautology for emphasis is often accepted, for example "for ever and ever".

Not everybody listens to what they say (or write) to make sure it actually makes sense. I've just heard a journalist commenting on the job for the new Prime Minister of the UK, and she said "the task before him will be hard and difficult". We can't get away from such garbage. [/rant]

[CrOtALiTo]

Then I don't understand the word For ever and ever relatively are the same.
Or that has some simplicity in the mix up of the words.

Ever should means Siempre.
And for last for ever should means Por siempre.

Those words are very used in the lyrics songs and well sometimes I get confuse in the truly means of the words.

What can I use?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Both expressions are interchangeable for me, although most people around here prefer to say "para siempre" in daily speech, and leave "por siempre" for more literary contexts.


@Lou Ann: never try to learn what's correct from songs.
In this case, it's only for emphasizing endlessness.

@Perikles: The definitions of "para siempre" and "por siempre" are almost the same, but there is a difference, which seems to be the "por tiempo indefinido" in "para siempre", which isn't as definitive as "por siempre", which seems to be always from now to eternity.

para siempre.
1. loc. adv. Por todo tiempo o por tiempo indefinido. Me voy para siempre

por siempre.

1. loc. adv. Perpetuamente o por tiempo sin fin. Por siempre sea alabado y bendito

[irmamar]

I agree with Angelica. Take a look here.

[Perikles]

Thank you , ladies.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by irmamar

I agree with Angelica. Take a look here.

I love that link - thanks, Irmamar!!