Llamome

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Ok, I think I understand now.

Oh, and how do the modern vos forms (vos sos; vos tenés; ¡abrí!) Sound to people in countries that don't really use them? And how do they sound to Spaniards accustomed to the vosotros forms?

I don't want to sound impolite, you ask and I answer. I don't like it. That's all I'm saying.

Someone from Spain may answer the last part of your question..

[Caballero]

I don't like it.

So do they sound old-fashioned, or just odd? Do they sound more or less formal than the tú forms? Do you like the sois, tenéis, etc. forms better? Or do you not like them either?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

So do they sound old-fashioned, or just odd? Do they sound more or less formal than the tú forms? Do you like the sois, tenéis, etc. forms better? Or do you not like them either?

"Tú" and "vosotros" sound extremely old fashioned to me, but many are saying the same about "vos".

As you are pretty much oversimplifying the question, it's important that you be aware about what you are asking when you inquire about "how 'vos' sounds". It has a social ascription in every country it is used. About 35% of Spanish speakers in America use "vos". This happens in roughly four ways:

Countries where "vos" is the standard form in every level of the language -with some scarce exceptions or notes about regional or social uses- (Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay). "Vos" is cool.

Countries where "vos" is the colloquial form and formal language tends towards avoidance. Mid class speakers use both forms depending on the context -in some cases there are exclusive-tú regions- (Chile, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua). "Vos" is popular.

Countries where "vos" is cornered to colloquial use in a few regions and it is considered vulgar or "ethnic" -if some kind of ethnicity might be extracted from a pronoun- (Mexico -Chiapas, part of Tabasco-, Venezuela -Zulia-, almost vanished in Peru). Vos is slang.

Countries with language barriers inside them. They have regions with each use and the pronouns summarize an internal historical and political confrontation. There are two complex cases: Bolivia -"tú" in the Highlands, "vos" in the Lowlands- and Colombia -with three different kind of Spanish, the central one being the politically and culturally predominant -imposing "tú" and with an age-old tendency to españolización- . "Vos/tú" are "the other ones".

So, every customer will tell his/her own story and by the content of that story you can spot a lot about the customer. In forums like these, when somebody puts on airs about "tú" and the inconvenience of "vos" -they are mainly Spanish (some 80%) and Colombian or Venezuelan (10, maybe 15%) females- I like to say that here in Buenos Aires "tú" is used mainly by immigrants regarded as gastarbeiters, so it is not prestigious per se. In my daily experience in the district where I work "tú" is used by old Galician immigrants -some of them illiterate, including relatives of very good friends of mine-, I hear Dominican prostitutes chatting or offering their services with "tú" -"¡Ay papi ven! ¡Pero qué alto eres!", and also the Nick Rivieras quacks came from Peru, Ecuador and Colombia to reduce costs in emergency services -I hate having to tell them what they are expected to ask-. I hope this has been cutting enough as an example of what happens when we foster "feelings" and associate them to language.

[poli]

As an Anglo, I can say vos sounds much softer than tú.
In a play, I heard vos sos used in a confrontation, and I remember thinking
that tú eres may have been more dramatic and put-up-your-dukes sounding under that circumstance. In general Argentinian Spanish sounds softer to me than other Spanish accents.

[Caballero]

Countries where "vos" is the colloquial form and formal language tends towards avoidance. Mid class speakers use both forms depending on the context

I know someone from El Salvador that switches between using the tú form with me, and the vos form. Does that mean that he was being a little more formal at first, and then is becoming less formal?

Vos sois, etc.

How do these forms sound in Argentina? I think they are used in Chile IIRC?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Caballero

I know someone from El Salvador that switches between using the tú form with me, and the vos form. Does that mean that he was being a little more formal at first, and then is becoming less formal?

I suppose he/she's being friendly with "tú" and more familiar, pal-like, with "vos". But you have to ask that person. My not confirmed hypothesis is that in many places in Central America the uneducated understand "tú" but only use "vos", so people often use "tú" with strangers in order to be friendly but not being regarded as uneducated. Once everyone's status is clear, they use which they feel more comfortable.

Originally Posted by Caballero

How do these forms sound in Argentina? I think they are used in Chile IIRC?

Voseo reverencial (vos sois) sounds here pretty much renaissance cloak and dagger. The only place I think it is used -without the reverencial- is in Zulia, Venezuela and La Guajira, Colombia, sometimes as "tú sois".

My understanding is that in Chile they say "vos tenís" instead of "vos tenés", but "vos sos" and "vos andás" the same way most of us voseantes. I may be mixing up some regional forms in Andean Argentina that are similar.

[Caballero]

I just looked up Chilean voseo: hablái; comís; podís; vivís; soi; habís; venís
What do the Chilean forms sound like to you?

Wikipedia says:

vos sabís, vos venís, vos hablái
"This combination occurs only in very informal situations and should be approached and used with caution by foreigners. It is always considered rude and insulting but is tolerated and enjoyed as part of friendly bonding and banter. However, with even a slight change in intonation it can change from a tone of friendly banter to a form of insult in a heated argument, even among friends. Non-natives should refrain from using vos until sufficient understanding of its use is gained."

Wow.
Does the general voseo (which they don't use) that is used in Rioplatense and Central American dialects also sound rude to Chileans? Vos sabés, vos sos, vos decís, etc.

Then Wikipedia also says:

"2. Verbal voseo, using the pronoun tú.
For example: tú sabís, tú tenís, tú hablái, tú vivís, etc.
This kind of voseo is the predominant form used in the spoken language.[3] It should never be used in formal situations or with people one is not very familiar with."

Does this mean that they also prefix the verb with a pronoun, unlike other dialects?

What does simply "sabís; tenís", etc. with no pronoun sound like to Chileans?

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

So do they sound old-fashioned, or just odd? Do they sound more or less formal than the tú forms? Do you like the sois, tenéis, etc. forms better? Or do you not like them either?

They don't sound old fashioned. Just odd. They also sound very informal to me, and yes, more than the tú form.

Sois, teneis is used in Span, not in L.A. I don't dislike them when said by a real Spanish person because that's the way they talk, that's part of the language.

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

They don't sound old fashioned. Just odd. They also sound very informal to me, and yes, more than the tú form.

Sois, teneis is used in Span, not in L.A. I don't dislike them when said by a real Spanish person because that's the way they talk, that's part of the language.

What about if someone addressed one person with them?

[chileno]

Just in the case of Chile.

In Spain it was used Vos to mean Usted and Vosotros for Ustedes. (formal)

Tú for Vos-Usted (informal)

At one point after the Conquista the chilean said stuff like Vos tenís, later one it changed to "Vo' tení' "

Nowadays it consider low register to speak like in front of others that are not friends or family. We talk like that mainly to make fun of the lower social strata and jokes about it.

Tú or usted tiene, and when in between friends "tú tení", we know it isn't castellano at all, just that's how we talk more or less familiarly. Some families don't event consider that kind of language amongst themselves.

I hope I didn't forget anything about this issue. How they treat in other countries, it isn't my concern, although I understand what they want to mean.

[Caballero]

But if someone from another country went to Chile, and said "Vos decís", would you be insulted or think them to be lower class?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Caballero

But if someone from another country went to Chile, and said "Vos decís", would you be insulted or think them to be lower class?

No, of course not, we would tend to ask where is that person from.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

What about if someone addressed one person with them?

In Spain it's for the 2nd person plural. Never for one single person.

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

In Spain it's for the 2nd person plural. Never for one single person.

I meant the reverential vos forms, like how Sancho sometimes uses on Don Quixote.

[Luna Azul]

Originally Posted by Caballero

I meant the reverential vos forms, like how Sancho sometimes uses on Don Quixote.

I don't quite understand what your question is. Look.. in some countries, like Argentina, Uruguay and others, they use "vos" instead of "tú". It's their natural way of speaking. It's the informal way.

"Vosotros" is only used in Spain when you address more than one person. It's not used for one single person.

That's the way they are normally used.

Other uses, changes in the conjugation of the verbs, the words used and even the pronunciations, are localisms and usually are not accepted by the RAE. As Chileno says, it may be just an indicator of their social class.

I don't think anyone would feel insulted if someone used "vos" or "vosotros. It's just the way some people speak and everybody respects that. It may sound peculiar in a way, but never insulting.

You have to understand that nowadays no one speaks the language the way Don Quixote did.

[Caballero]

Originally Posted by Luna Azul

In Spain it's for the 2nd person plural. Never for one single person.

Hypothetically speaking, how would it sound to you if someone used it to address only one person?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Caballero

Hypothetically speaking, how would it sound to you if someone used it to address only one person?

Archaic.

[CrOtALiTo]

Originally Posted by Caballero

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

The correct form is Me llamo Juan.
My name is Juan.