Impresora

[DailyWord]

This is a discussion thread for the Daily Spanish Word for April 23, 2008

impresora -femenine noun (la), printer, computer printer. Look up impresora in the dictionary

¡Me urge imprimir esta hoja, pero mi impresora no sirve!
I need to print this page right now by my printer doesn't work!

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by DailyWord

This is a discussion thread for the Daily Spanish Word for April 23, 2008

impresora -femenine noun (la), printer, computer printer. Look up impresora in the dictionary

¡Me urge imprimir esta hoja, pero mi impresora no sirve!
I need to print this page right now by my printer doesn't work!

Hi, Daily Word, and welcome to the forums!

This is an important day here in Spain, and I guess in some other countries, as it's April 23th, el día del libro, on which, some centuries ago, Shakespeare and Cervantes died. This is why I will be very critic with you, Daily Word (you can also be critic with me, this is the way of learning): Impresora, imprimir, hoja, urgir, servir are pure Spanish words, but the phrase formed with them has arisen some questions to me:

• If you already have esta hoja, why do you need to print it? Why don't you photocopy it? Maybe the phrase would gain some realism if you are urged to print este archivo (this file).
• Don't think, Daily word, that servir is always a good translation for to work. Servir uses to translate to be helpful. In this case, the proper translation would be funcionar or estar estropeada: mi impresora no funciona, mi impresora está estropeada.

On April 23th we here in Spain use to give a book as a present and to receive one. And in Catalonia, as it is also San Jordi, you should also give and receive a rose as a present. I hope your books are good ones.

[Rusty]

Some corrections:

Originally Posted by Alfonso

... centuries ago, Shakespeare and Cervantes died. This is why I will be very critical with you, Daily Word (you can also be critical with me, this is my way of learning): Impresora, imprimir, hoja, urgir, servir are pure Spanish words, but the phrase formed with them has raised some questions (in me):

• If you already have esta hoja, why do you need to print it? Why don't you photocopy it? Maybe the phrase would gain some realism if it were urgent to print este archivo (this file).
• Don't think, Daily word, that servir is always a good translation for to work. Servir is translated to be helpful. In this case, the proper translation would be funcionar or estar estropeada: mi impresora no funciona, mi impresora está estropeada.

On April 23rd, we here in Spain exchange gifts of books. And in Catalonia, as well as in San Jordi, roses are also exchanged. I hope your books are good ones.

[Rusty]

I learned no funciona and está fregada in Centroamérica. Me gusta lo de estropear.

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Hi, Daily Word, and welcome to the forums!




This is an important day here in Spain, and I guess in some other countries, as it's April 23th, el día del libro, on which, some centuries ago, Shakespeare and Cervantes died. This is why I will be very critic with you, Daily Word (you can also be critic with me, this is the way of learning): Impresora, imprimir, hoja, urgir, servir are pure Spanish words, but the phrase formed with them has arisen some questions to me:

• If you already have esta hoja, why do you need to print it? Why don't you photocopy it? Maybe the phrase would gain some realism if you are urged to print este archivo (this file).
• Don't think, Daily word, that servir is always a good translation for to work. Servir uses to translate to be helpful. In this case, the proper translation would be funcionar or estar estropeada: mi impresora no funciona, mi impresora está estropeada.

On April 23th we here in Spain use to give a book as a present and to receive one. And in Catalonia,the feast of San Jordi is celebrated today as well(as well is sometimes used intead of also) It's traditional for Catalonians to exchange roses as gifts today. I hope your books are good ones.

Alfonso and Rusty
This quote is corrected well, but there is one exception. Please note the highlighted part. Regional holidays are less common in the U.S.
There are exceptions though. In NYC San Geronimo in September
and Saint Anthony in June are examples. These two festivals do not include anything as nice a exchanging roses, but both feast days have big street fairs where and local dreadful chatarra food is prepared and sold at temporary kiosks in the street.

Poli

[Rusty]

Good correction, Poli. I see now that Alfonso meant that San Jordi was also celebrated on April 23rd.
Thanks.

[Alfonso]

Thanks a lot, Rusty and Poli for your corrections and clarifying points of view. I guess I can get what's wrong and what's right from considering both corrections. I know it's not easy to correct a composition written by a foreigner, who mix up different words and structures usages, both correct and incorrect, who is learning the language and don't consider, at the moment, different stylistic possibilities. It's enough for me to try to write correctly. That's why I beg you try to distinguish what's a grammatical correction from what's a stylistic one.

For example, I checked the verb to urge , and it does exist. So I guess that to be urged to do something is correct. Am I right?

What about April 23th / 23rd? Are both expressions correct, or only the second one?

[poli]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

Thanks a lot, Rusty and Poli for your corrections and clarifying points of view. I guess I can get what's wrong and what's right from considering both corrections. I know it's not easy to correct a composition written by a foreigner, who mix(mixes) up different words and structures usages(word structures), both correct and incorrect.(A foreigner who is learning the language and don't consider(may not be considering), at the moment, different stylistic possibilities. It's enough for me to try to write correctly. That's why I beg you try to distinguish what's a grammatical correction from what's a stylistic one.

For example, I checked the verb to urge , and it does exist. So I guess that to be urged to do something is correct. Am I right?

What about April 23th / 23rd? Are both expressions correct, or only the second one?

Alfonso,
To be urged to do something implica coersion.
Ejemplo: The salesman urged the customer to puchase the purple car.
Ejemplo: The father urged his daughter not to go out with her tatooed
and pierced boyfriend.

Urge as a noun means a compulsion. example:The alcoholic had an urge
to drink an entire bottle of orujo.

Synomyn for the verb urge is to metaphorical term: to twist your arm.
A higher tone verb is to prevail upon.

21st
22nd
23rd
24th
25th
26th
27th
28th
29th
30th
Sometimes when we write we leave out the st,nd ,th. Example: I live in 43 Street, and I live on 43rd Street are both correct. In speaking you
must alway include the st, nd and th, or you will sound very foreign.

[Rusty]

Only April 23rd is correct. The abbreviation 'rd' comes from the last two letters of the ordinal number 'twenty-third.' Likewise, we use the abbreviation 'st' when the ordinal number ends in 'first' (like twenty-first) and we use 'nd' when the ordinal number ends in 'second' (twenty-second). All other numbers use the abbreviation 'th,' the last two letters of the ordinal number (fourth, fifth, fifteenth, twenty-sixth, etc.).

Yes, Alfonso, you can be urged to do something. If we are urged to do something we generally understand that we have a choice. In this vein, you could also substitute verbs like persuade, suggest, and encourage. If the verb is said with emphasis, we generally understand that we don't really have a choice. In this vein, you can substitute verbs like press, pressure, and force.

Tomisimo's original sentence suggested urgency to me; the copy had to made right away, but he was frustrated by a broken printer. There was no mention of another person being involved. That is why I chose 'to be urgent.' You might call it a stylistic correction, but we don't usually hear sentences like, "I am pressured (strongly urged) to print this file." We say, "I need to print this file now. It's urgent." Even more urgent is the colloquial, "I needed this file printed yesterday." I think this is what Tomisimo intended. I suppose you may hear, "It's imperative I print this file," or "It's urgent I print this file," but only highly educated people would use that type of language.

I hope that makes sense.

[Alfonso]

Mmmm... a semantic correction, as you understood certain context which is open to interpretation, Rusty. There could be, or not, someone else involved. But I even think that not only persons can urge you, but also situations or whatever. A correction like this must be explained or not done. One can't guess its reason if it's not explicitly said. Anyway, this kind of correction can be questioned, because it will always depend on what the speaker is trying to convey.

What about the/my way of learning?
Don't you think this is a speaker choice?

Poli, se escribe coerción (nombre); coercitivo (adj.).

Thanks a lot, Poli and Rusty.

[poli]

Alfonso
This is the way of learning es correcto pero parece muy filosófico-- igual a «eso es el modo de aprender». Si substutuyeof learning para to learn
su inglés va parecer mas natural.

[Tomisimo]

to urge is not the same as urgir

to urge someone to do something
insistir que alguien haga algo
presionar a alguien a hacer algo
instar a uno a hacer algo

urgir
to be urgent
to be needed urgently
to be pressing

Me urge partir
I need need to leave immediately

Urge el dinero
We need money urgently


So... coming back to the Daily Word...

Me urge hacer x.
I need to do x right away

[Tomisimo]

No sirve and no funciona are both very common ways to say it's broken or it doesn't work in Mexico. Estropear/estropeado is to mistreat/mistreated (in Mexico). Another good option would be la impresora está descompuesta. So once again, we run into regional differences in Spanish, which is great.

My goal with the Daily Word is not to be perfect. I'm happy if it sparks discussion, since then we can all learn something.

And you're right, ...imprimir este archivo... makes more sense than ... imprimir esta hoja...

[poli]

I think no sirve is used in a lot of Latin American Spanish, but it means
"it doesn't work" in a very general manner. You can say, Tengo fiebre
tomé aspirina. Todavía tengo fiebre no me sirvió
You can also say. Traté el nuevo detergente y no sirvió para quitar manchas de grasa.
No sirve doesn't really mean out oforder and no funciona
does. No sirve is kind of vague. No funciona
Is more specific. They both can mean roto but they have other meanings that roto doesn't have.
Poli

[Alfonso]

Originally Posted by Tomisimo

to urge is not the same as urgir
urgir
to be urgent
to be needed urgently
to be pressing

(Pero, en español, urgir no es lo mismo que ser urgente).



David, your traslation of urgir is only for intransitive cases, as:

• Me urge hacer pis = I need urgently to do wee wee. And note that even in these cases the verbal regimes are different, as me urge works in Spanish as me duele, me parece, etc. (IO+V+S).

But it doesn't work when the use of urgir is transitive:

• Me urgieron a que acabara, por eso lo hice tan mal.
• El chaparrón nos urgió a marcharnos. Acabamos el fin de semana antes de tiempo.
• El hambre y la hora me urgieron a hacer las fotocopias antes de que la fila se hiciera interminable, pero la máquina se negó a funcionar (possible context ).

In this last case, I think to urge and urgir mean the same:

• Alguien / algo urge a alguien a hacer algo.
• Someone / something urges somebody to do something.

I've checked both usages in RAE and Webster Dictionary. Tomísimo Dictionary also states: urgir = to urge.

[Rusty]

The reason I corrected

... with me, this is the way of learning ...

is because it sounds too assuming/authoritarian, or philosophical (like Poli said). Instead of conveying the idea that everyone learns by being critiqued, it sounds nicer to my English ear to shift into first person and speak only about oneself at that point. By so doing, you communicate that you yourself learn by being critiqued, and you don't apply that philosophy on anyone else. This sounds nicer to my ear because I have met many folks who dislike, or even hate, being critiqued.

Another way to say "This is my way of learning" is "This is the way I learn." Both of these statements are very neutral. You can't go wrong with them.

If I've misinterpreted your intention, I'm sorry. I have to rely on semantics when I read what someone else has written. Sometimes I misinterpret meanings, or think they may have wanted to say something else and I make corrections based on those criteria.

I'll try to remember to explain my corrections in the future. Many of my corrections are simply to make your English sound more polished to the native speaker. They don't always imply that your English is wrong. I appreciate your help with my Spanish - removing the rust, as you once said.

[Alfonso]

Hey, Rusty, you don't need to apologise. I'm only trying to find out what's your correcting criteria, and, at the same time, I'm criticising your critics (so we both are doing the same). It's natural if your corrections have arisen some doubts in me. Before this, I was confident on what I wrote. Now, I'm doubtful.

Anyway, I don't think in English the way of learning sounds more authoritarian than in Spanish la manera de aprender. Also in Spanish you can make it softer if you say: mi manera de aprender. But, what's the point on it? Both are correct, and they have different meanings. Of course, you could argue with me if I should be positive that this is the way of learning. But this is another question.

I have some more doubts. I only need to know your reasons. This way, I will be able to think by myself instead of imitating your English ear, which I really appreciate.

I thought servir uses to translate to be helpful was correct. You corrected: servir is transtalated to be helpful. Aren't these both phrases correct?

I really appreciate your help!

[Rusty]

The phrase 'servir uses to translate to be helpful' doesn't make sense as written. I believe you may have had "se usa para traducir" in mind. The verb 'uses' is an incomplete translation of 'se usa'. It usually appears in the passive voice:
servir is used to translate to be helpful
If you don't want to use the passive voice, the sentence needs rewritten:
Some use servir to translate to be helpful

I opted to keep the phrase in the passive voice, but shortened the 'passive voice verb + infinitive' construct. I did this because it would be used more people. It is OK to use either translation, however.

[Alfonso]

Sorry, Rusty, if I seem to be inquisitive. This may be because I read attentively what you write.

Originally Posted by Rusty

I believe you may have had "se usa para traducir" in mind. The verb 'uses' is an incomplete translation of 'se usa'. It usually appears in the passive voice:
servir is used to translate to be helpful
If you don't want to use the passive voice, the sentence needs rewritten:

Some use servir to translate to be helpful

Actually, I had soler in mind, which very often translates to use*:

• I use to go to the cinema.
• Suelo ir al cine.

* Notice I used this structure: X translates Y to check, again, if I can use it this way, as in Spanish, in a formal or technichal language, you could say el verbo soler traduce to use, where the person who makes the translation doesn't appear.

Thanks a lot for your help!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Alfonso

... Actually, I had soler in mind, which very often translates to use*:

• I use to go to the cinema.
• Suelo ir al cine.

* Notice I used this structure: X translates Y to check, again, if I can use it this way, as in Spanish, in a formal or technichal language, you could say el verbo soler traduce to use, where the person who makes the translation doesn't appear.

Soler, in the present tense, means to be in the habit of. We seldom say it that way, however. La traducción más común es el verbo principal más usually:
Suelo ir al cine.
I usually go to the theater. (I am in the habit of going to the theater.)

So, the translation of:
Se suele traducir servir por to be helpful
is:
Servir is usually translated to be helpful

If the subject is known, the translation would be:
I usually translate servir as/to to be helpful.

Instead of saying 'as' or 'to' in the sentence above, we can pause slightly after the word servir. I mention this because it is very common to follow 'translate' with 'to' or 'as.'

If you want to say 'servir traduce to be helpful' in English, you say either:
servir is translated (as) to be helpful
or:
servir translates (as) to be helpful


In the past tense, soler is translated to be accustomed to. But, we seldom say it that way. Solemos decir (we usually say) used to:
Solía ir al cine.
I used to go to the theater.
(I was accustomed to going to the theater. -or- I was in the habit of going ...)

Another way to express 'used to' is would and the present tense verb:
We would stroll along the beach on Saturdays.
Solíamos dar un paseo por la playa los sábados.